5 ms·

Yes, tax collectors are just checking if you really moved or not. So if you really move, then you will have (almost) no problems.

by pulse7 8y ago

praffer 8y ago
I wouldn't say "no problems." I've been through a New York State residency audit and it was protracted, stressful, intrusive, and expensive (for representation -- worth every penny), even though I had indeed really moved (long before the audit and not specifically for tax reasons), had loads of evidence to that effect, and was confident I would prevail in the end. (I did.) It was very unpleasant having it hanging over me for the better part of a year and I definitely thought of it as a major problem, perhaps the major problem in my life at the time, until it was resolved.
- tomohawk 8y ago
  This definitely gives me pause when considering moving to a high tax state like NY. It sounds like the kind of state where you pay your taxes and just hope the government leaves you alone, which is likely untrue if you are or become a high earner. This kind of stuff will likely be litigated for years, especially as people with means are being harassed in this way. It will be interesting to see which of these tactics ultimately pass muster. I wonder if you could bring a RICO suite.
  - radicaldreamer 8y ago
    You're buying into a lot of FUD here, there are more high earners in New York and California than many other states and very few have the kinds of problems you're describing.
    - wernercd 8y ago
      But with pushes to enact higher and higher and higher taxes specifically TARGETING higher earners... the problem is something that will become more pronounced as those higher taxes will drive more away. Whether we are talking tens... or tens of hundreds... it's still nice to know about a minefield as you work to escape from it.
      - throwaway5752 8y ago
        "But with pushes to enact higher and higher and higher taxes specifically TARGETING higher earners... the problem is something that will become more pronounced as those higher taxes will drive more away." Which pushes, can you cite a few or a trend where the distribution of tax load is shifting? Isn't NYS trying like crazy to lower higher income bracket taxes because the Federal deduction for property taxes was decreased?
    - tomohawk 8y ago
      People being harassed because they moved out of state is not FUD. Its abuse, and it definitely happens. Why would I move to a state and have a career there if I know at the end of my career I'll be at peak earnings and at that time want to move elsewhere for retirement or pre-retirement? Many people in my state move at that time to other states for tax reasons or cost of living reasons. They know they won't be able to afford to live in the high priced state when their earnings drop. I know of at least one person who's in the process of moving to FL, and they received legal advice to save all receipts and other evidence. The only reason they received this advice is due to the widespread abuse by the state. Not a NYer, but I
  - dsfyu404ed 8y ago
    >It sounds like the kind of state where you pay your taxes and just hope the government leaves you alone, That has much more to due with how the people and the government believe government should act than it does with the taxes themselves. ME and VT are fairly high tax but politicians would be hanging from bridges (edit: it should be obvious that this is an exaggeration) if the ME or VT government tried to behave like the NY or MA government because the people simply don't see that sort of government style as how things should be and the government is a large organization made up of people.
phil21 8y ago
Yeah I thought this too until I ran afoul of things. Right before SoL expired my old state said I owed them for 3 years of taxes going back 5 years previous. At that point I no longer had much documented proof I had really (legitimately) moved - since I had moved back to original state by then. Sworn statements from employers/colleagues/etc. weren't enough, and to fight it would have cost more than the amount "due". In the end I paid it, with the state tax representative even outright stating "I might even believe you, but it's going to cost you more to fight us in court over it than just paying". And right he was. I learned some lessons about record keeping - but the fact I needed to "prove my innocence" vs. the other way around was absurd.
- throwaway5752 8y ago
  Didn't you pay rent/have a landlord, forward your address, or pay utilities/taxes in your new state? Sworn statements are next to useless, but how did you manage to get into a place where you couldn't produce those types of records? I moved between states (for a bonus, moving out of a notoriously high tax state) and never had a thousandth of the issues you describe.
  - thedufer 8y ago
    None of those are considered evidence that you've lost state residency (otherwise a second home would be sufficient for New Yorkers to avoid taxes). I'm currently preparing to move out of New York temporarily, and the advice from my tax advisor is to use a credit card or make a call from a cell phone at least every 3 days, and hold on to the credit card statements/cell phone records. The odds that I will be audited upon returning seem to be somewhere north of 90%, and New York is of the opinion that you are a resident unless you can prove otherwise.
    - gamblor956 8y ago
      What your tax advisor suggested is even less relevant than a apartment rental agreement, as you can make calls and use credit cards on vacation... What is evidence of change of residency is change of voter registration and acquiring a driver's license in your new state of residence. Coupled with proof of a non-New York address, it shifts the burden to NY to prove that you are no longer one of their residents.

Yes, tax collectors are just checking if you really moved or not. So if you really move, then you will have (almost) no problems.

by pulse7 8y ago

Yes, tax collectors are just checking if you really moved or not. So if you really move, then you will have (almost) no problems.

praffer 8y ago

I wouldn't say "no problems." I've been through a New York State residency audit and it was protracted, stressful, intrusive, and expensive (for representation -- worth every penny), even though I had indeed really moved (long before the audit and not specifically for tax reasons), had loads of evidence to that effect, and was confident I would prevail in the end. (I did.) It was very unpleasant having it hanging over me for the better part of a year and I definitely thought of it as a major problem, perhaps the major problem in my life at the time, until it was resolved.

tomohawk 8y ago
This definitely gives me pause when considering moving to a high tax state like NY. It sounds like the kind of state where you pay your taxes and just hope the government leaves you alone, which is likely untrue if you are or become a high earner. This kind of stuff will likely be litigated for years, especially as people with means are being harassed in this way. It will be interesting to see which of these tactics ultimately pass muster. I wonder if you could bring a RICO suite.
- radicaldreamer 8y ago
  You're buying into a lot of FUD here, there are more high earners in New York and California than many other states and very few have the kinds of problems you're describing.
  - wernercd 8y ago
    But with pushes to enact higher and higher and higher taxes specifically TARGETING higher earners... the problem is something that will become more pronounced as those higher taxes will drive more away. Whether we are talking tens... or tens of hundreds... it's still nice to know about a minefield as you work to escape from it.
    - throwaway5752 8y ago
      "But with pushes to enact higher and higher and higher taxes specifically TARGETING higher earners... the problem is something that will become more pronounced as those higher taxes will drive more away." Which pushes, can you cite a few or a trend where the distribution of tax load is shifting? Isn't NYS trying like crazy to lower higher income bracket taxes because the Federal deduction for property taxes was decreased?
  - tomohawk 8y ago
    People being harassed because they moved out of state is not FUD. Its abuse, and it definitely happens. Why would I move to a state and have a career there if I know at the end of my career I'll be at peak earnings and at that time want to move elsewhere for retirement or pre-retirement? Many people in my state move at that time to other states for tax reasons or cost of living reasons. They know they won't be able to afford to live in the high priced state when their earnings drop. I know of at least one person who's in the process of moving to FL, and they received legal advice to save all receipts and other evidence. The only reason they received this advice is due to the widespread abuse by the state. Not a NYer, but I
- dsfyu404ed 8y ago
  >It sounds like the kind of state where you pay your taxes and just hope the government leaves you alone, That has much more to due with how the people and the government believe government should act than it does with the taxes themselves. ME and VT are fairly high tax but politicians would be hanging from bridges (edit: it should be obvious that this is an exaggeration) if the ME or VT government tried to behave like the NY or MA government because the people simply don't see that sort of government style as how things should be and the government is a large organization made up of people.

phil21 8y ago

Yeah I thought this too until I ran afoul of things. Right before SoL expired my old state said I owed them for 3 years of taxes going back 5 years previous. At that point I no longer had much documented proof I had really (legitimately) moved - since I had moved back to original state by then. Sworn statements from employers/colleagues/etc. weren't enough, and to fight it would have cost more than the amount "due". In the end I paid it, with the state tax representative even outright stating "I might even believe you, but it's going to cost you more to fight us in court over it than just paying". And right he was. I learned some lessons about record keeping - but the fact I needed to "prove my innocence" vs. the other way around was absurd.

throwaway5752 8y ago
Didn't you pay rent/have a landlord, forward your address, or pay utilities/taxes in your new state? Sworn statements are next to useless, but how did you manage to get into a place where you couldn't produce those types of records? I moved between states (for a bonus, moving out of a notoriously high tax state) and never had a thousandth of the issues you describe.
- thedufer 8y ago
  None of those are considered evidence that you've lost state residency (otherwise a second home would be sufficient for New Yorkers to avoid taxes). I'm currently preparing to move out of New York temporarily, and the advice from my tax advisor is to use a credit card or make a call from a cell phone at least every 3 days, and hold on to the credit card statements/cell phone records. The odds that I will be audited upon returning seem to be somewhere north of 90%, and New York is of the opinion that you are a resident unless you can prove otherwise.
  - gamblor956 8y ago
    What your tax advisor suggested is even less relevant than a apartment rental agreement, as you can make calls and use credit cards on vacation... What is evidence of change of residency is change of voter registration and acquiring a driver's license in your new state of residence. Coupled with proof of a non-New York address, it shifts the burden to NY to prove that you are no longer one of their residents.