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Time to ban immigration. " Together immigrants and their U.S. born children account for roughly 75 percent of annual population increase in the U.S. In absolut

Time to ban immigration. " Together immigrants and their U.S. born children account for roughly 75 percent of annual population increase in the U.S. In absolute terms, that’s an additional 2.25 million people each year. " https://www.fairus.org/issue/population-environment/population-growth https://www.fairus.org/issue/population-environment/populati...

dingo_bat 8y ago
Immigration needs to be based on merit of the immigrant and need of the country, not as a form of charity. It's hard to believe that USA needs 2.25 million people extra every year. I wonder why the law in this regard cannot be simplified. You are allowed to immigrate to the US if: - you will earn more than $100k. - you have a STEM MS/PhD from an institute of repute. - you clear a set of security checks. That should take care of most of the problems related to immigration.
- jadedhacker 8y ago
  Freedom of movement is a human right full stop.
  - ekianjo 8y ago
    Oh yeah? Are you ready to welcome 100 millions people to come in then? Good luck keeping democracy and whatever institutions you have when you become a minority yourself. Ask american native indians how that worked well for them.
    - jadedhacker 8y ago
      1) Practically speaking, that wouldn't happen. 2) Ask yourself how ethnocentrism and nationalism led to that genocidal outcome. Could we have instead invited the native americans to work together in a democratic system? Imagine the possibilities. 3) If you're the minority in the world, what justifies you keeping others down? 4) Why are Central and South Americans leaving their homes? Investigate the brutal CIA coups, military invasions, arms dealing, and drug smuggling the united states has inflicted on this hemisphere since before the Monroe Doctrine. If we stopped destroying whole societies, we might not have to clean up our own messes. EDIT: Also, our institutions have been shown by recent history to be a complete farce. Maybe new people would rebuild them better without the taint of authoritarianism, hierarchy, and corruption.
  - dingo_bat 8y ago
    I think you're being a bit unreasonable. Are you really suggesting that anybody in the world who wants to walk into the USA should be allowed to? It seems like that nullifies the existence of the nation itself. Why have a border? Why have a military to protect that border? Also, the freedom of movement is not a blanket statement. It does not, for instance, grant me permission to move into your house.
    - jadedhacker 8y ago
      I am suggesting that. I think that perhaps we might want to check for certain types of criminal charges, but we are seeing in real time how that is abused. However, yes, the concept of nations, standing armies, and the whole lot is built on hierarchy, deprivation, and violence, and undemocratic process. We should be working towards a world in which borders are not necessary, or at least, expand that zone maximally up to the teeth of imperialist enemies that would try to take it from us. Socialists are not coming for your toothbrush. We ask for a world in which people are free to live and work where they please. A world where people are not thrown in cages or separated from their families because they cross an invisible line. We don't need to walk into your personal space to have that, but if we did for some reason, hi, how are you doing? :)
    - aninhumer 8y ago
      >Are you really suggesting that anybody in the world who wants to walk into the USA should be allowed to? Maybe block known criminals and bad actors, but otherwise yes. If your argument as to why we should exclude people is based on the idea that it would make standards of living worse for people here, that's a) probably not true and b) only makes sense if you think the wellbeing of the people here is more important the wellbeing of people elsewhere. >It seems like that nullifies the existence of the nation itself. Why have a border? Not really, there'd still be a government and a system of laws that apply within the border. But beyond that, why specifically do you think it would be bad to nullify the existence of a nation? >Why have a military to protect that border? In as far as a military is necessary, it is to protect against other militaries, not non-violent civilians entering the country.
- enraged_camel 8y ago
  >> It's hard to believe that USA needs 2.25 million people extra every year. Just look at the numbers: http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/03/08/immigration-projected-to-drive-growth-in-u-s-working-age-population-through-at-least-2035/ http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/03/08/immigration-... Basically, we do need millions of immigrants per year to keep the working-age population high enough so as to support retiring Baby Boomers.
  - burfog 8y ago
    Who will support the immigrants? https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/09/01/immigrant-welfare-use-report/71517072/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/09/01/immigr... With most of their households receiving some form of welfare, it doesn't seem like this helps with the Baby Boomers at all. Lots of non-immigrants are also unemployed. If anything, we have too many working-age people for the jobs available. With more and more robot-like replacements for workers (kiosks, self-driving, etc.) it sure seems foolish to get more low-skill people. What will they do for a living?
- mnm1 8y ago
  This is exactly the kind of hateful stupidity that the president squirted out of his mouth hole a few months ago. Yeah let's forget about America's rich history of immigration and integration. While we're destroying one of the greatest parts of American culture, we will need to rewrite the poem on the statue of liberty. How about: “Give me your STEM graduates, your rich, Your aristocracy yearning to hate others, The best of your well-off. Send these, the ones with multiple houses, flown on private jets to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!” And let's not forget to mention how arrogant it is to think that these people would even want to come to America as it is, let alone America as the shitty hellhole you imagine. Fuck that.
  - dingo_bat 8y ago
    > This is exactly the kind of hateful stupidity Maybe you should try to be a bit more civil when making your point, it will motivate the other person to take you seriously.
    - mnm1 8y ago
      Hard to be civil when dealing with xenophobia, but you're right in general. I don't see how it apples here though.
      - flukus 8y ago
        Where is the evidence of xenophobia? "send us your STEM graduatues" is hardly a fear of foreigners.
        mnm1 8y ago
        You clearly have no sense of humor.
        aninhumer 8y ago
        You're not advocating for encouraging STEM graduate immigrants, you're advocating for the exclusion of any other immigrants. Unless you're also advocating for the deportation of non-STEM graduates, your position is explicitly discriminatory based on where someone is born. It's bigotry.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
anonuser123456 8y ago
Is this Poe's law? I really can't tell. It's only due to immigration that the US population isn't contracting like the rest of the developed world.

dingo_bat 8y ago

Immigration needs to be based on merit of the immigrant and need of the country, not as a form of charity. It's hard to believe that USA needs 2.25 million people extra every year. I wonder why the law in this regard cannot be simplified. You are allowed to immigrate to the US if: - you will earn more than $100k. - you have a STEM MS/PhD from an institute of repute. - you clear a set of security checks. That should take care of most of the problems related to immigration.

jadedhacker 8y ago
Freedom of movement is a human right full stop.
- ekianjo 8y ago
  Oh yeah? Are you ready to welcome 100 millions people to come in then? Good luck keeping democracy and whatever institutions you have when you become a minority yourself. Ask american native indians how that worked well for them.
  - jadedhacker 8y ago
    1) Practically speaking, that wouldn't happen. 2) Ask yourself how ethnocentrism and nationalism led to that genocidal outcome. Could we have instead invited the native americans to work together in a democratic system? Imagine the possibilities. 3) If you're the minority in the world, what justifies you keeping others down? 4) Why are Central and South Americans leaving their homes? Investigate the brutal CIA coups, military invasions, arms dealing, and drug smuggling the united states has inflicted on this hemisphere since before the Monroe Doctrine. If we stopped destroying whole societies, we might not have to clean up our own messes. EDIT: Also, our institutions have been shown by recent history to be a complete farce. Maybe new people would rebuild them better without the taint of authoritarianism, hierarchy, and corruption.
- dingo_bat 8y ago
  I think you're being a bit unreasonable. Are you really suggesting that anybody in the world who wants to walk into the USA should be allowed to? It seems like that nullifies the existence of the nation itself. Why have a border? Why have a military to protect that border? Also, the freedom of movement is not a blanket statement. It does not, for instance, grant me permission to move into your house.
  - jadedhacker 8y ago
    I am suggesting that. I think that perhaps we might want to check for certain types of criminal charges, but we are seeing in real time how that is abused. However, yes, the concept of nations, standing armies, and the whole lot is built on hierarchy, deprivation, and violence, and undemocratic process. We should be working towards a world in which borders are not necessary, or at least, expand that zone maximally up to the teeth of imperialist enemies that would try to take it from us. Socialists are not coming for your toothbrush. We ask for a world in which people are free to live and work where they please. A world where people are not thrown in cages or separated from their families because they cross an invisible line. We don't need to walk into your personal space to have that, but if we did for some reason, hi, how are you doing? :)
  - aninhumer 8y ago
    >Are you really suggesting that anybody in the world who wants to walk into the USA should be allowed to? Maybe block known criminals and bad actors, but otherwise yes. If your argument as to why we should exclude people is based on the idea that it would make standards of living worse for people here, that's a) probably not true and b) only makes sense if you think the wellbeing of the people here is more important the wellbeing of people elsewhere. >It seems like that nullifies the existence of the nation itself. Why have a border? Not really, there'd still be a government and a system of laws that apply within the border. But beyond that, why specifically do you think it would be bad to nullify the existence of a nation? >Why have a military to protect that border? In as far as a military is necessary, it is to protect against other militaries, not non-violent civilians entering the country.
enraged_camel 8y ago
>> It's hard to believe that USA needs 2.25 million people extra every year. Just look at the numbers: http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/03/08/immigration-projected-to-drive-growth-in-u-s-working-age-population-through-at-least-2035/ http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/03/08/immigration-... Basically, we do need millions of immigrants per year to keep the working-age population high enough so as to support retiring Baby Boomers.
- burfog 8y ago
  Who will support the immigrants? https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/09/01/immigrant-welfare-use-report/71517072/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/09/01/immigr... With most of their households receiving some form of welfare, it doesn't seem like this helps with the Baby Boomers at all. Lots of non-immigrants are also unemployed. If anything, we have too many working-age people for the jobs available. With more and more robot-like replacements for workers (kiosks, self-driving, etc.) it sure seems foolish to get more low-skill people. What will they do for a living?
mnm1 8y ago
This is exactly the kind of hateful stupidity that the president squirted out of his mouth hole a few months ago. Yeah let's forget about America's rich history of immigration and integration. While we're destroying one of the greatest parts of American culture, we will need to rewrite the poem on the statue of liberty. How about: “Give me your STEM graduates, your rich, Your aristocracy yearning to hate others, The best of your well-off. Send these, the ones with multiple houses, flown on private jets to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!” And let's not forget to mention how arrogant it is to think that these people would even want to come to America as it is, let alone America as the shitty hellhole you imagine. Fuck that.
- dingo_bat 8y ago
  > This is exactly the kind of hateful stupidity Maybe you should try to be a bit more civil when making your point, it will motivate the other person to take you seriously.
  - mnm1 8y ago
    Hard to be civil when dealing with xenophobia, but you're right in general. I don't see how it apples here though.
    - flukus 8y ago
      Where is the evidence of xenophobia? "send us your STEM graduatues" is hardly a fear of foreigners.
      - mnm1 8y ago
        You clearly have no sense of humor.
      - aninhumer 8y ago
        You're not advocating for encouraging STEM graduate immigrants, you're advocating for the exclusion of any other immigrants. Unless you're also advocating for the deportation of non-STEM graduates, your position is explicitly discriminatory based on where someone is born. It's bigotry.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

anonuser123456 8y ago

Is this Poe's law? I really can't tell. It's only due to immigration that the US population isn't contracting like the rest of the developed world.