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Ask HN: When we will see the rest of the Snowden docs?

It's been widely reported he took more than 50,000 docs. To my knowledge, only 400 documents to date have been released. Does anybody know when we might see the rest of the documents he's still in possession of?

hsienmaneja 8y ago
First off, the official narrative is that he passed them off to reporters. Secondly, what in the releases in the intercept public releases specifically compels you to want to see more classified info? I might suggest a military path if you want a strong chance to be in the intelligence community, then you can be privy to sensitive info that is need to know. If you believe info should be free I respect your right to believe in that and the service members of our military also fight for your right to do so as well, while keeping classified info private.
- woodman 8y ago
  > ...and the service members of our military also fight for your right to do so as well, while keeping classified info private. Combat vet reporting in: you have my permission to view the rest of the Snowden documents. While secrecy does have a role in operational security - taken too far it does much more harm than good. I'll never forget the news rolling in about the leak, and how vindicated many security folks (including myself) felt in regard to how insane the surveillance apparatus had become. It was hilarious watching them drip feed the leak, see the predictable government lie, then see the next leak proving that the government just lied.
  - hsienmaneja 8y ago
    Most people in the military I speak to absolutely have the opposite conviction. In fact all of the people with whom I’ve acquainted myself are against the Snowden leaks. Maybe it’s geographical. I’m talking to people in my state only. My take on the follow up leaks is that they were chosen to give the impression of a trail to something much more insidious, but were actually picked in some attempt to obtain maximum impact in embarrassing United States. Also, why would you want classified info that’s not related to domestic surveillance shenanigans leaked to the public? Everything that has been released since the initial revelations seems to be related to military operations. Maybe I’m missing something.
    - woodman 8y ago
      Most of the people I served with share my conviction. It likely has less to do with geography and more to do with experience and culture. I fought in Fallujah as a Marine infantry machinegunner, and did a bunch of S2 work as well. You know what good the NSA and CIA did us? None. I can't tell you the number of times we were sent of wild goose chases for Zarqawi by an intel echelon above battalion... So nothing Snowden leaked would have touched operations in the al-Anbar province. Manning on the other hand... he leaked fresh company level operation logs - which I certainly disagree with. It is a very strange experience to be able to go through wikileaks and find mission debriefs that I submitted over a decade ago. > ...obtain maximum impact in embarrassing United States. That only worked because the government repeatedly lied in an attempt to minimize the last leak, only to be proven a liar with the next leak. That wasn't the ultimate goal though, just a hilarious side effect. The ultimate goal was to dominate as many news cycles as possible, because the public has a limited attention span. > Maybe I’m missing something. You are. The NSA is so incredibly tilted toward offensive operations that it is ridiculous. They've so inundated themselves with surveillance data that they've got analysis paralysis and can't effectively use the data for its stated objective. It makes no sense for the US to dominate in offensive cyber operations, because we have no technological peer... unless the NSA is cool with industrial espionage. [0] That effort should instead be redirected to defense, which is supposedly a mission of the NSA, because of the asymmetrical relationship between the difficulties in exploitation and hardening. Any banana republic can gather a team of hackers and electrical engineers, but it takes some serious resources to harden code and infrastructure. This is the reason why we stopped pursuing biological weapon development and shifted to an unmatched defensive posture. [0] https://theintercept.com/2014/09/05/us-governments-plans-use-economic-espionage-benefit-american-corporations/ https://theintercept.com/2014/09/05/us-governments-plans-use...
      - hsienmaneja 8y ago
        Thanks for your insights. May I ask why you believe too much info is leading to analysis paralysis? Because of Binney or Snowden? Also, I read the document just now that Snowden leaked related to the corporate espionage. What our IC was doing is nothing compared to the broad theft other cultures engage in without any moral concern as a matter of course in that culture. I find Snowden and Greenwald leaking such a document to be hugely offensive and anti-American. The intercept’s analysis of some “subversion of society” is totally overblown. Such an underworld of spies is bound to be dirty and the general public doesn’t know enough of the reality to understand that. I believe in the American way and disagree that we should not have an offensive cyber strategy as well, but agree about fortifying (and reinventing) our defenses. Offensive biological strategy is something different, not seeing the parallel. As for your insights about Iraq I’ll ask around. Good to get your info here.
banku_brougham 8y ago
I have a followup question: Was Snowden a villain? I certainly was interested to learn what the NSA was doing, and very unhappy about the fouth amendment implications. But forget all that. What specific publicly available info indicates he had nefarious intentions or was an agent of a hostile power?
- matt_s 8y ago
  Isn't he residing in Russia now? A related follow-up question is: could his knowledge of our systems and processes somehow have helped Russians do the hacking prior to 2016 US elections? Not that they couldn't have done it without him but did he help in an indirect way?
  - woodman 8y ago
    > Isn't he residing in Russia now? The only country that has demonstrated the ability to resist pressure to extradite people wanted by the US? Yes. > ...could his knowledge of our systems and processes somehow have helped Russians do the hacking prior to 2016 US elections? bwahaha, so now he is involved in muh Russian collusion? The answer is yes, which is what makes your insinuation really funny - they did all the things he would have advised them not to do. So you could interpret that as evidence that he didn't provide them that information, and is therefore not a Russian spy.
    - ccarter84 8y ago
      > ...is therefore not a Russian spy. Hopefully you're right - lotta respect for how eloquent and well-spoken that kid was given the enormity of the pressures on him. As the years have passed, I'm a bit less sure about the motivations however.
      - woodman 8y ago
        > As the years have passed, I'm a bit less sure about the motivations however. If you've got evidence, or even a coherent rationale, that would cast doubt on his motives - I'd love to hear it. No, fleeing to the only country that would be out of the reach of a president who prosecuted more whistleblowers (and reporters) than every prior administration combined... that isn't evidence of Snowden being a Russian spy. That would be like insisting that a prisoner who accepts food from his captor is also expressing approval for his captivity. BTW, looking back at all the articles about Obama's legacy in regard to whistleblowers, written after the election - darkly predicting that Trump will start jailing reporters because Obama had established the precedent... lol.
ionised 8y ago
He's not in possession of anything. He handed over everything he had to journalists in Hong Kong.
duxup 8y ago
Hasn't he talked about returning to the US? Releasing more (if he has them) probably would have to be considered, along with the wishes of his current hosts.
krapp 8y ago
Those documents are now a commercial asset. When the steady drip of Snowden stories stops making money for the media, everything left will be probably be dumped in a box and shelved somewhere.

hsienmaneja 8y ago

First off, the official narrative is that he passed them off to reporters. Secondly, what in the releases in the intercept public releases specifically compels you to want to see more classified info? I might suggest a military path if you want a strong chance to be in the intelligence community, then you can be privy to sensitive info that is need to know. If you believe info should be free I respect your right to believe in that and the service members of our military also fight for your right to do so as well, while keeping classified info private.

woodman 8y ago
> ...and the service members of our military also fight for your right to do so as well, while keeping classified info private. Combat vet reporting in: you have my permission to view the rest of the Snowden documents. While secrecy does have a role in operational security - taken too far it does much more harm than good. I'll never forget the news rolling in about the leak, and how vindicated many security folks (including myself) felt in regard to how insane the surveillance apparatus had become. It was hilarious watching them drip feed the leak, see the predictable government lie, then see the next leak proving that the government just lied.
- hsienmaneja 8y ago
  Most people in the military I speak to absolutely have the opposite conviction. In fact all of the people with whom I’ve acquainted myself are against the Snowden leaks. Maybe it’s geographical. I’m talking to people in my state only. My take on the follow up leaks is that they were chosen to give the impression of a trail to something much more insidious, but were actually picked in some attempt to obtain maximum impact in embarrassing United States. Also, why would you want classified info that’s not related to domestic surveillance shenanigans leaked to the public? Everything that has been released since the initial revelations seems to be related to military operations. Maybe I’m missing something.
  - woodman 8y ago
    Most of the people I served with share my conviction. It likely has less to do with geography and more to do with experience and culture. I fought in Fallujah as a Marine infantry machinegunner, and did a bunch of S2 work as well. You know what good the NSA and CIA did us? None. I can't tell you the number of times we were sent of wild goose chases for Zarqawi by an intel echelon above battalion... So nothing Snowden leaked would have touched operations in the al-Anbar province. Manning on the other hand... he leaked fresh company level operation logs - which I certainly disagree with. It is a very strange experience to be able to go through wikileaks and find mission debriefs that I submitted over a decade ago. > ...obtain maximum impact in embarrassing United States. That only worked because the government repeatedly lied in an attempt to minimize the last leak, only to be proven a liar with the next leak. That wasn't the ultimate goal though, just a hilarious side effect. The ultimate goal was to dominate as many news cycles as possible, because the public has a limited attention span. > Maybe I’m missing something. You are. The NSA is so incredibly tilted toward offensive operations that it is ridiculous. They've so inundated themselves with surveillance data that they've got analysis paralysis and can't effectively use the data for its stated objective. It makes no sense for the US to dominate in offensive cyber operations, because we have no technological peer... unless the NSA is cool with industrial espionage. [0] That effort should instead be redirected to defense, which is supposedly a mission of the NSA, because of the asymmetrical relationship between the difficulties in exploitation and hardening. Any banana republic can gather a team of hackers and electrical engineers, but it takes some serious resources to harden code and infrastructure. This is the reason why we stopped pursuing biological weapon development and shifted to an unmatched defensive posture. [0] https://theintercept.com/2014/09/05/us-governments-plans-use-economic-espionage-benefit-american-corporations/ https://theintercept.com/2014/09/05/us-governments-plans-use...
    - hsienmaneja 8y ago
      Thanks for your insights. May I ask why you believe too much info is leading to analysis paralysis? Because of Binney or Snowden? Also, I read the document just now that Snowden leaked related to the corporate espionage. What our IC was doing is nothing compared to the broad theft other cultures engage in without any moral concern as a matter of course in that culture. I find Snowden and Greenwald leaking such a document to be hugely offensive and anti-American. The intercept’s analysis of some “subversion of society” is totally overblown. Such an underworld of spies is bound to be dirty and the general public doesn’t know enough of the reality to understand that. I believe in the American way and disagree that we should not have an offensive cyber strategy as well, but agree about fortifying (and reinventing) our defenses. Offensive biological strategy is something different, not seeing the parallel. As for your insights about Iraq I’ll ask around. Good to get your info here.

banku_brougham 8y ago

I have a followup question: Was Snowden a villain? I certainly was interested to learn what the NSA was doing, and very unhappy about the fouth amendment implications. But forget all that. What specific publicly available info indicates he had nefarious intentions or was an agent of a hostile power?

matt_s 8y ago
Isn't he residing in Russia now? A related follow-up question is: could his knowledge of our systems and processes somehow have helped Russians do the hacking prior to 2016 US elections? Not that they couldn't have done it without him but did he help in an indirect way?
- woodman 8y ago
  > Isn't he residing in Russia now? The only country that has demonstrated the ability to resist pressure to extradite people wanted by the US? Yes. > ...could his knowledge of our systems and processes somehow have helped Russians do the hacking prior to 2016 US elections? bwahaha, so now he is involved in muh Russian collusion? The answer is yes, which is what makes your insinuation really funny - they did all the things he would have advised them not to do. So you could interpret that as evidence that he didn't provide them that information, and is therefore not a Russian spy.
  - ccarter84 8y ago
    > ...is therefore not a Russian spy. Hopefully you're right - lotta respect for how eloquent and well-spoken that kid was given the enormity of the pressures on him. As the years have passed, I'm a bit less sure about the motivations however.
    - woodman 8y ago
      > As the years have passed, I'm a bit less sure about the motivations however. If you've got evidence, or even a coherent rationale, that would cast doubt on his motives - I'd love to hear it. No, fleeing to the only country that would be out of the reach of a president who prosecuted more whistleblowers (and reporters) than every prior administration combined... that isn't evidence of Snowden being a Russian spy. That would be like insisting that a prisoner who accepts food from his captor is also expressing approval for his captivity. BTW, looking back at all the articles about Obama's legacy in regard to whistleblowers, written after the election - darkly predicting that Trump will start jailing reporters because Obama had established the precedent... lol.

ionised 8y ago

He's not in possession of anything. He handed over everything he had to journalists in Hong Kong.

duxup 8y ago

Hasn't he talked about returning to the US? Releasing more (if he has them) probably would have to be considered, along with the wishes of his current hosts.

krapp 8y ago

Those documents are now a commercial asset. When the steady drip of Snowden stories stops making money for the media, everything left will be probably be dumped in a box and shelved somewhere.