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As a determined supporter of Scottish independence, I obviously disagree with that assessment :) Independence doesn’t mean that countries become completely det
by matthewmacleod 8y ago
As a determined supporter of Scottish independence, I obviously disagree with that assessment :)
Independence doesn’t mean that countries become completely detached from their neighbours. In Catalonia for example the assumption is that both the new country and the remainder of Spain would remain members of the EU and the associated intergovernmental machinery that brings. That means no border guards or economic walls!
In the Scottish case, for example, it’s worth bearing in mind that as a country it already has an entirely separate government, legal system, healthcare and education systems. Is it such a big leap to imagine that a separate foreign policy and military organisation might be feasible?
- Tomte 8y ago> In Catalonia for example the assumption is that both the new country and the remainder of Spain would remain members of the EU and the associated intergovernmental machinery that brings. That is simply impossible, unless Spain agrees. That means Catalonia would need goodwill from the Spaniards, and that means the separation would have to be amicable. I don't see the Catalans going that route. No matter that Spain may be "more at fault" (if you lean towards the Catalan side), unless they can defuse the situation completely, they are dreaming a very, very dangerous dream. I suppose they wouldn't starve, at least. The other European countries (at some point even including Spain) would send food aid. :-) The Scottish referendum was completely different: Westminster had already agreed to accept the separation. Without enthusiasm, but still.
- vidarh 8y ago> That is simply impossible, unless Spain agrees. So it's not impossible. > I don't see the Catalans going that route. It may not start down that route, but realistically there is no other route. It may be that it takes some unrest to force everyone to take negotiations seriously, but there's no realistic prospect of Catalonia forcing independence via civil war or revolution.
- Tomte 8y agoIn the same sense as it's not impossible that I'm a green-blooded alien that's currently employed in taking over earth, sure.
- 21 8y agoBut what do you think would have happened if Scotland declared independence against the will of the UK government? Unless you were willing to fight for it, I don't see how the outcome would have been different than the Catalan one.
- dnomad 8y agoI think you're really underestimating how tenuous the UK's claim on Scotland really is. Frankly, there is no model in which the UK deploys military assets to forcefully retain Scotland. This would almost certainly delegitamise the entire "Great Britain" concept. Catalonia is different because it, frankly, was never really an independent nation. And while Spain recognizes a certain autonomy it does not grant anything like an independent legal system. That said the case of Catalonia is interesting. There's nothing quite like it in France. France has never even entertained autonomy, instead emphasizing at every opportunity the "supremacy" of the Parisian government. There's probably a lesson to be learned from Spain and the UK which may have unwittingly given "hope" to these separatist movements.
- isostatic 8y agoI think you're really underestimating how tenuously the UK's claim on Scotland really is. A Scottish king took over the English throne in 1603. Blame him. I see no reason that should a sustained majority (so 3 million plus Scots or 4 million plus Catalonians) be in favour of independence, that independence shouldn't happen (In an orderly structured fashion ensuring the rights of citizens on both sides are kept)