5 ms·

as 99.5% of the world aren't "hackers" and quite like the idea of calling people on the other side of the world for free, perhaps the success of Skype shows you

by weego 16y ago

as 99.5% of the world aren't "hackers" and quite like the idea of calling people on the other side of the world for free, perhaps the success of Skype shows your ideals are out of touch with the world around you. Who, then, is more likely to be wrong?

StavrosK 16y ago
Neither. Ideals aren't about convenience, that's why they're ideals. While I love Skype, I can appreciate the fact that it's stifling innovation and killing interoperability, since you can't use it with SIP... It's as if we had email, and then a proprietary protocol which everyone used. Countless services would never have been created.
- borism 16y ago
  except Skype works with SIP now: http://www.skype.com/intl/en-us/business/sip/overview/ http://www.skype.com/intl/en-us/business/sip/overview/
  - StavrosK 16y ago
    Wow, this is great news, thanks! EDIT: Wait, this just converts your SIP phones to work with Skype, it doesn't allow you to call other SIP phones. E.g. I can't use it to call Truphone/Gizmo users with it. It's a two-tier phone service, same as IM clients. This is why the GP's ideals are a good thing.
    - borism 16y ago
      Would you enlighten me how it is supposed to call Truphone/Gizmo unless the owners of those services specifically want to connect them trough SIP gateway? Is Skype supposed to go out and find every standalone SIP setup in the world and connect to it?
      - StavrosK 16y ago
        Can't you call a Truphone user from Gizmo, since they both use SIP?
riffic 16y ago
My point isn't about what is popular, it is about what is right. anyways I don't like making predictions, but I can't see skype lasting 10+ years if they continue to pursue a closed architecture. it just will not happen. What is most uncomfortable about skype to me is the fact that they are the single provider of their service; for example if you wanted to use another service you wouldn't be allowed to use that other network to contact a skype user. This is an example of a choice I consider to be wrong.
- rimantas 16y ago
  I can't see skype lasting 10+ years if they continue to pursue a closed architecture. it just will not happen. Because? I am amused by this silly attitude that open === good and viable. Always. Just because it is "right" for whatever definition of "right" is. The reality is that people don't give a damn, open or closed it is as long as it works and gets job done.
  - riffic 16y ago
    Because open systems like xmpp and facetime will enable choice and skype will either open to interoperate or die.
    - rimantas 16y ago
      Skype can just remain one of the choices, why die?
lwhi 16y ago
Skype (in terms of the functionality it offers) is basically a branded form of SIP VoIP. You can obtain similar functionality using a generic SIP VoIP account purchased through a reseller .. which will be free from the negative restrictions mentioned.
- moeffju 16y ago
  Skype isn't SIP, Skype is a proprietary P2P protocol. Which is one of the reasons it works so well going through firewalls etc. - Skype had to make it work and could change their implementation at will. (Although most of the magic was already in KaZaA/FastTrack, which the Skype P2P network was based on AFAIK)
  - lwhi 16y ago
    Okay, a good point - but does Skype offer much more than you can obtain from a SIP account? My understanding is that there's a benefit to choosing SIP over skype, because the technology is interoperable and non-proprietary. I suppose, my point is that people don't need to rely on Skype to be able to call people for free. In my opinion, Skype isn't the only - or even best - choice.
    - riffic 16y ago
      not sure why you're being downvoted on this, you bring up a very good point. Facetime on iphone 4 uses open standards including SIP, STUN and ICE. These are mature p2p technologies heavily used and deployed and are the same used in xmpp jingle specifications. open standard p2p already won this battle which skype will persist to fight.
      - lwhi 16y ago
        I suppose there are people reading the comments, who really _really_ like Skype (although not enough to explain their reasoning).
    - bonzoesc 16y ago
Joeboy 16y ago
> perhaps the success of Skype shows your ideals are out of touch with the world around you I can't imagine what kind of confusion would cause somebody to type that.

by weego 16y ago

StavrosK 16y ago

Neither. Ideals aren't about convenience, that's why they're ideals. While I love Skype, I can appreciate the fact that it's stifling innovation and killing interoperability, since you can't use it with SIP... It's as if we had email, and then a proprietary protocol which everyone used. Countless services would never have been created.

borism 16y ago
except Skype works with SIP now: http://www.skype.com/intl/en-us/business/sip/overview/ http://www.skype.com/intl/en-us/business/sip/overview/
- StavrosK 16y ago
  Wow, this is great news, thanks! EDIT: Wait, this just converts your SIP phones to work with Skype, it doesn't allow you to call other SIP phones. E.g. I can't use it to call Truphone/Gizmo users with it. It's a two-tier phone service, same as IM clients. This is why the GP's ideals are a good thing.
  - borism 16y ago
    Would you enlighten me how it is supposed to call Truphone/Gizmo unless the owners of those services specifically want to connect them trough SIP gateway? Is Skype supposed to go out and find every standalone SIP setup in the world and connect to it?
    - StavrosK 16y ago
      Can't you call a Truphone user from Gizmo, since they both use SIP?

riffic 16y ago

My point isn't about what is popular, it is about what is right. anyways I don't like making predictions, but I can't see skype lasting 10+ years if they continue to pursue a closed architecture. it just will not happen. What is most uncomfortable about skype to me is the fact that they are the single provider of their service; for example if you wanted to use another service you wouldn't be allowed to use that other network to contact a skype user. This is an example of a choice I consider to be wrong.

rimantas 16y ago
I can't see skype lasting 10+ years if they continue to pursue a closed architecture. it just will not happen. Because? I am amused by this silly attitude that open === good and viable. Always. Just because it is "right" for whatever definition of "right" is. The reality is that people don't give a damn, open or closed it is as long as it works and gets job done.
- riffic 16y ago
  Because open systems like xmpp and facetime will enable choice and skype will either open to interoperate or die.
  - rimantas 16y ago
    Skype can just remain one of the choices, why die?

lwhi 16y ago

Skype (in terms of the functionality it offers) is basically a branded form of SIP VoIP. You can obtain similar functionality using a generic SIP VoIP account purchased through a reseller .. which will be free from the negative restrictions mentioned.

moeffju 16y ago
Skype isn't SIP, Skype is a proprietary P2P protocol. Which is one of the reasons it works so well going through firewalls etc. - Skype had to make it work and could change their implementation at will. (Although most of the magic was already in KaZaA/FastTrack, which the Skype P2P network was based on AFAIK)
- lwhi 16y ago
  Okay, a good point - but does Skype offer much more than you can obtain from a SIP account? My understanding is that there's a benefit to choosing SIP over skype, because the technology is interoperable and non-proprietary. I suppose, my point is that people don't need to rely on Skype to be able to call people for free. In my opinion, Skype isn't the only - or even best - choice.
  - riffic 16y ago
    not sure why you're being downvoted on this, you bring up a very good point. Facetime on iphone 4 uses open standards including SIP, STUN and ICE. These are mature p2p technologies heavily used and deployed and are the same used in xmpp jingle specifications. open standard p2p already won this battle which skype will persist to fight.
    - lwhi 16y ago
      I suppose there are people reading the comments, who really _really_ like Skype (although not enough to explain their reasoning).
  - bonzoesc 16y ago

Joeboy 16y ago

> perhaps the success of Skype shows your ideals are out of touch with the world around you I can't imagine what kind of confusion would cause somebody to type that.