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I don't believe your experience that big companies almost immediately re-hire after layoffs, for jobs that require training from square one (after firing square

I don't believe your experience that big companies almost immediately re-hire after layoffs, for jobs that require training from square one (after firing square-one employees). In the tech field, I've seen plenty of re-hires right after layoffs, but the companies are always replacing them with engineers/developers/factory workers who possess an entirely different skill set that is well beyond the scope of what the company is responsible for training them for. E.g. firing your jQueryers to bring in a team with 2+ years of modern web framework experience, laying off data analysts to bring in machine learning experts, letting your financial team go and bringing in a diverse team of accountants with experience in international finance. I've never seen a direct example of a company removing their electricians because they don't have "Acme high voltage" certification and hiring other electricians with the plan to give them Acme high voltage certification. Outside of tech, you've got me. I have no idea. If this is specifically what you're talking about, I'll have to take your word for it. >You cannot meaningfully measure that effort at scale Sure you can. "Do you have experience with our aluminum hydraulic press tool? No? What about you, potential hire? No?" Then the probabilistic expected value of time/money to train would be equal.

toyg 8y ago
> firing your jQueryers to bring in a team with 2+ years of modern web framework experience We clearly have different opinions on what retraining means. If you think "jqueryers" cannot be trained to use more modern JS frameworks, or accountants cannot learn international finance principles, then you are basically saying that retraining is not possible at all. It's a very sad view of the human brain's potential. > I've never seen a direct example of a company removing their electricians because they don't have "Acme high voltage" certification and hiring other electricians with the plan to give them Acme high voltage certification. Indeed: the point is that a company will now hire somebody with that certification already in the bag, avoiding the cost and effort of giving the chance to obtain it to their existing workforce. > the probabilistic expected value of time/money to train would be equal. You have a very simplistic view of what a job entails. There is a lot of related business knowledge that goes with jobs, even some of the most trivial ones: why you have to produce so many widgets at this or that speed can be as important as how you actually operate the necessary tools to achieve that result.
- vortico 8y ago
  >We clearly have different opinions on what retraining means Well, this post is about training people to hammer out cymbals. >Indeed: the point is that a company will now hire somebody with that certification already in the bag, avoiding the cost and effort of giving the chance to obtain it to their existing workforce. Then that is not what I was asking two messages ago after you claimed >a lot of companies don't even try to "teach new tricks to an old dog"
  - toyg 8y ago
    Sorry, but then I honestly don't think you are arguing in good faith here. Have a good day.

toyg 8y ago

> firing your jQueryers to bring in a team with 2+ years of modern web framework experience We clearly have different opinions on what retraining means. If you think "jqueryers" cannot be trained to use more modern JS frameworks, or accountants cannot learn international finance principles, then you are basically saying that retraining is not possible at all. It's a very sad view of the human brain's potential. > I've never seen a direct example of a company removing their electricians because they don't have "Acme high voltage" certification and hiring other electricians with the plan to give them Acme high voltage certification. Indeed: the point is that a company will now hire somebody with that certification already in the bag, avoiding the cost and effort of giving the chance to obtain it to their existing workforce. > the probabilistic expected value of time/money to train would be equal. You have a very simplistic view of what a job entails. There is a lot of related business knowledge that goes with jobs, even some of the most trivial ones: why you have to produce so many widgets at this or that speed can be as important as how you actually operate the necessary tools to achieve that result.

vortico 8y ago
>We clearly have different opinions on what retraining means Well, this post is about training people to hammer out cymbals. >Indeed: the point is that a company will now hire somebody with that certification already in the bag, avoiding the cost and effort of giving the chance to obtain it to their existing workforce. Then that is not what I was asking two messages ago after you claimed >a lot of companies don't even try to "teach new tricks to an old dog"
- toyg 8y ago
  Sorry, but then I honestly don't think you are arguing in good faith here. Have a good day.