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Readers will note the article is about state and local government jobs. Everyone should try to work in government at some point to understand why things so rel

Readers will note the article is about state and local government jobs. Everyone should try to work in government at some point to understand why things so relevant to your life happen the way they do, and to be better citizens. State and local has huge challenges in terms of funding and potentially old infrastructure, but also incredible opportunities to change lives with simple improvements in processes that haven’t gotten the love they deserve. Wage increases would help, but two year “tours” with other benefits might at least help folks understand why the mission is so important and maybe bust up some staid organization with some new energy. Good luck to these folks - they’ll need it.

wolfgke 8y ago
> Everyone should try to work in government at some point to understand why things so relevant to your life happen the way they do, and to be better citizens. I disagree: Working in something government related makes you deeply hate the government. To give some background: When I get involved into political discussions (which I rather avoid for good reasons), people very often tell me privately afterwards that I gave really good arguments for my points of discussion, but my arguments and political direction are so different from anything they have heard so far and could hardly be more different from any party program of any party they heard of (needless to say that I do not feel in any sense represented by any party in Germany). So they privately do agree with many points that I introduce, but openly state to me that they are not be able to defend these arguments in public because they are so different from the current political agenda. To me this is deeply frustrating. > State and local has huge challenges in terms of funding and potentially old infrastructure, but also incredible opportunities to change lives with simple improvements in processes that haven’t gotten the love they deserve. This is exactly what government is not about. It is obeying some strange set of laws perfectly instead of doing what really makes sense.
- alistairSH 8y ago
  I don't disagree, but working as a bureaucrat is not the same as having a political debate. Most bureaucrats are doing work that needs done regardless of political alignment (of the employee, or of the current administration). Leading the police department, sanitation department, etc - none are strictly political positions.
  - wolfgke 8y ago
    I disagree, since making things more effective often makes things very political. I just want to mention that in many cases, the law requires time-intensive tendering procedures, which are clearly not very efficient or effective. There do exist some exceptions, but then you need a decision by the respective political commitee to allow such an exception. Here things get very ... political. This holds for many other points, too: The existing laws do not allow one to work efficiently and effectively. This is only possible if you are good at playing the political game.
    - alistairSH 8y ago
      Sure. I don't disagree, but that exists, to some extent, in private sector offices as well. To be more specific, "office politics" is not the same thing as "Politics" (as in GOP vs Democrat, liberal vs conservative, etc). Your initial post mentioned the decline of political discourse. In my view, that's a different thing than office politics.
    - sailfast 8y ago
      At a minimum working in government for a short while allows you to understand the challenges present in that political game if you must play it - this makes you a more astute user of services and a better citizen because you know where real root cause problems lie.
- sailfast 8y ago
  I’m thinking that the United States Federal and State system likely have significant differences here that at leading to misunderstanding. By “government job” I mean a bureaucrat charged with leading or implementing a project - say, your local DMV website (licensing, car registration, etc) or your state park website. When these work well at the local level they are awesome. When they don’t I often hear people complain but they rarely understand why the site is subpar, challenges to make it better, or want to pay for improvements.

wolfgke 8y ago

> Everyone should try to work in government at some point to understand why things so relevant to your life happen the way they do, and to be better citizens. I disagree: Working in something government related makes you deeply hate the government. To give some background: When I get involved into political discussions (which I rather avoid for good reasons), people very often tell me privately afterwards that I gave really good arguments for my points of discussion, but my arguments and political direction are so different from anything they have heard so far and could hardly be more different from any party program of any party they heard of (needless to say that I do not feel in any sense represented by any party in Germany). So they privately do agree with many points that I introduce, but openly state to me that they are not be able to defend these arguments in public because they are so different from the current political agenda. To me this is deeply frustrating. > State and local has huge challenges in terms of funding and potentially old infrastructure, but also incredible opportunities to change lives with simple improvements in processes that haven’t gotten the love they deserve. This is exactly what government is not about. It is obeying some strange set of laws perfectly instead of doing what really makes sense.

alistairSH 8y ago
I don't disagree, but working as a bureaucrat is not the same as having a political debate. Most bureaucrats are doing work that needs done regardless of political alignment (of the employee, or of the current administration). Leading the police department, sanitation department, etc - none are strictly political positions.
- wolfgke 8y ago
  I disagree, since making things more effective often makes things very political. I just want to mention that in many cases, the law requires time-intensive tendering procedures, which are clearly not very efficient or effective. There do exist some exceptions, but then you need a decision by the respective political commitee to allow such an exception. Here things get very ... political. This holds for many other points, too: The existing laws do not allow one to work efficiently and effectively. This is only possible if you are good at playing the political game.
  - alistairSH 8y ago
    Sure. I don't disagree, but that exists, to some extent, in private sector offices as well. To be more specific, "office politics" is not the same thing as "Politics" (as in GOP vs Democrat, liberal vs conservative, etc). Your initial post mentioned the decline of political discourse. In my view, that's a different thing than office politics.
  - sailfast 8y ago
    At a minimum working in government for a short while allows you to understand the challenges present in that political game if you must play it - this makes you a more astute user of services and a better citizen because you know where real root cause problems lie.
sailfast 8y ago
I’m thinking that the United States Federal and State system likely have significant differences here that at leading to misunderstanding. By “government job” I mean a bureaucrat charged with leading or implementing a project - say, your local DMV website (licensing, car registration, etc) or your state park website. When these work well at the local level they are awesome. When they don’t I often hear people complain but they rarely understand why the site is subpar, challenges to make it better, or want to pay for improvements.