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I don't have any first-hand experience, and I'm sure there are exceptions. I've heard that GitLab will pay around $80k for a remote software engineer in a count

I don't have any first-hand experience, and I'm sure there are exceptions. I've heard that GitLab will pay around $80k for a remote software engineer in a country with a low cost-of-living. That engineer could be earning $150k-$250k at a different company (e.g. Basecamp, GitHub, etc.) I realize that $80k is a lot of money for Europe/UK/Asia/South America/rest of the US. But if you're a top engineer, you could double or triple your income by working for a different company (or as a consultant.) I should mention that I don't have any problem with GitLab's compensation, and I think it's actually pretty fair. But fair doesn't really matter. A top engineer will just go to the company that pays more. I'm sure GitLab has a lot of great engineers, but just based on their compensation, I'm pretty sure it's not one of the best engineering teams in the world. Here's a few references/articles/job boards: * https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10924957 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10924957 * https://dev.to/sam_ferree/why-i-think-cost-of-living-pay-for-remote-workers-is-bs-5b68 https://dev.to/sam_ferree/why-i-think-cost-of-living-pay-for... (see some of the comments in there) * https://m.signalvnoise.com/basecamp-doesnt-employ-anyone-in-san-francisco-but-now-we-pay-everyone-as-though-all-did-3ee87013cfc2 https://m.signalvnoise.com/basecamp-doesnt-employ-anyone-in-... * https://weworkremotely.com https://weworkremotely.com * https://remoteok.io https://remoteok.io

fqb 8y ago
Thank you for the information
maccard 8y ago
They have a calculator [0] The same job, with the same experience is paid less than half what it is in SF in the UK. That's not really very enticing. https://about.gitlab.com/job-families/engineering/developer/#compensation https://about.gitlab.com/job-families/engineering/developer/...
- kabes 8y ago
  I don't know how they came to that calculator. But it seems that someone in Ethiopia would earn $20k more than someone in the Netherlands (outside of Amsterdam)
kokey 8y ago
There are other advantages of being a cheaper remote worker, cheaper than 'market rates'. One is that since you are cheaper, there may be less pressure on you to deliver at a certain speed. Which, in turn actually may allow you to work more carefully and over time deliver your work at a higher level of quality. This combination can lead to you being happier in the job and wanting to remain at it for longer and since you are cheaper your position is less at risk when your employer is going through restructuring.
- nathan_f77 8y ago
  That might be true sometimes, but I've also heard about some cases that are the exact opposite [1]. There are some software engineers making high six figures (e.g. > $600k including RSUs and bonuses), and the company respects them a lot more and values their output. These engineers aren't frantically cranking out code or working 12 hour days all the time. They're often doing very important work and have to be very careful. And I've also heard about cases where lower pay means worse employers, higher expectations, and higher levels of stress, because the company doensn't value or respect the employee as much. [1] https://twitter.com/sehurlburt/status/992779314532790273 https://twitter.com/sehurlburt/status/992779314532790273
lloeki 8y ago
> you could double or triple your income by working for a different company (or as a consultant.) ... and relocate? Many remote jobs require you to move at the very least in the company's country.
- nathan_f77 8y ago
  No, I'm talking about as a remote employee living in any country. It's true that most high paying software jobs require relocation, but there's some that don't.
arihantar 8y ago
A top Engineer will go to a company which aligns with his personal and professional goals. With your example, no one would have created a startup and simply working for someone who pays more.
czechdeveloper 8y ago
This is really interesting. I live in Czech away from Prague and made a joke on local dev meetup that "I will not work for 22k". Answer was "everyone here wishes to work for 22k". I don't think anyone I know here makes anything close to 100k even in Prague. I should investigate this bit more to get closer to SF salaries if possible.
- nathan_f77 8y ago
  22k USD is far too low for a good developer. I’ve met a few developers from Eastern European countries that charge $100+ USD per hour. You will always be able to find work at ~$70 per hour if you join TopTal. It should be easy to book projects for 30 hours per week and earn $100k USD per year. (Or you can work 6 hours per week to make $22k, if that’s all you need.) That’s still on the low end for web/mobile dev. Top developers will charge 2x or 3x that amount (but you won’t find that work on Toptal.) Full-time salaries will be lower than contract work, but it shouldn’t be difficult to find a remote web/mobile development job that pays $80k. (And that’s still very low for a good developer.)

fqb 8y ago

Thank you for the information

maccard 8y ago

They have a calculator [0] The same job, with the same experience is paid less than half what it is in SF in the UK. That's not really very enticing. https://about.gitlab.com/job-families/engineering/developer/#compensation https://about.gitlab.com/job-families/engineering/developer/...

kabes 8y ago
I don't know how they came to that calculator. But it seems that someone in Ethiopia would earn $20k more than someone in the Netherlands (outside of Amsterdam)

kokey 8y ago

There are other advantages of being a cheaper remote worker, cheaper than 'market rates'. One is that since you are cheaper, there may be less pressure on you to deliver at a certain speed. Which, in turn actually may allow you to work more carefully and over time deliver your work at a higher level of quality. This combination can lead to you being happier in the job and wanting to remain at it for longer and since you are cheaper your position is less at risk when your employer is going through restructuring.

nathan_f77 8y ago
That might be true sometimes, but I've also heard about some cases that are the exact opposite [1]. There are some software engineers making high six figures (e.g. > $600k including RSUs and bonuses), and the company respects them a lot more and values their output. These engineers aren't frantically cranking out code or working 12 hour days all the time. They're often doing very important work and have to be very careful. And I've also heard about cases where lower pay means worse employers, higher expectations, and higher levels of stress, because the company doensn't value or respect the employee as much. [1] https://twitter.com/sehurlburt/status/992779314532790273 https://twitter.com/sehurlburt/status/992779314532790273

lloeki 8y ago

> you could double or triple your income by working for a different company (or as a consultant.) ... and relocate? Many remote jobs require you to move at the very least in the company's country.

nathan_f77 8y ago
No, I'm talking about as a remote employee living in any country. It's true that most high paying software jobs require relocation, but there's some that don't.

arihantar 8y ago

A top Engineer will go to a company which aligns with his personal and professional goals. With your example, no one would have created a startup and simply working for someone who pays more.

czechdeveloper 8y ago

This is really interesting. I live in Czech away from Prague and made a joke on local dev meetup that "I will not work for 22k". Answer was "everyone here wishes to work for 22k". I don't think anyone I know here makes anything close to 100k even in Prague. I should investigate this bit more to get closer to SF salaries if possible.

nathan_f77 8y ago
22k USD is far too low for a good developer. I’ve met a few developers from Eastern European countries that charge $100+ USD per hour. You will always be able to find work at ~$70 per hour if you join TopTal. It should be easy to book projects for 30 hours per week and earn $100k USD per year. (Or you can work 6 hours per week to make $22k, if that’s all you need.) That’s still on the low end for web/mobile dev. Top developers will charge 2x or 3x that amount (but you won’t find that work on Toptal.) Full-time salaries will be lower than contract work, but it shouldn’t be difficult to find a remote web/mobile development job that pays $80k. (And that’s still very low for a good developer.)