4 ms·

The problem of fake news isn’t actual lies, it’s framing. You tell facts minus the details that would balance a story, so instead it’s weighted to the directio

The problem of fake news isn’t actual lies, it’s framing. You tell facts minus the details that would balance a story, so instead it’s weighted to the direction you want it to go. Everything you’ve said is still true and unless a reader/watcher/listener has knowledge of the full story already they have no idea what’s been left out. Anything from news to history to somebody’s biography is vulnerable to the approach and it’s virtually impossible to stop without some means of inserting all of the left out details into the content.

justinjlynn 8y ago
Modifying a story by purposefully editorialising the content in order to mislead the reader is effectively a lie of omission.
- beobab 8y ago
  "I swear to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth"?
- Simon_says 8y ago
  It's not that simple. You can't communicate every true fact, so any reporting will necessarily require judgement of what's necessary to report. There is a fine gradient from unbiased reporting to lying by omission.
  - justinjlynn 8y ago
    The key distinction which makes the act a lie is the knowing and malicious manipulation of information in order to defraud the recipient of choice. That is, it is the deciet itself, and not merely the act of not conveying all known information, which is the anathema.
    - Simon_says 8y ago
      In practice, the people doing the reporting don't know how biased they are.
      - dsfyu404ed 8y ago
        This. If three 18yos get shot committing a home invasion the SF headline will say "man shoots teenagers on front porch, police say charges will not be filed" and the BFE Arkansas headline will say "three men attempt home invasion, shot by homeowner". The same exact story will be spun totally differently (without lying or making absurd omissions) based on the author's personal beliefs. The authors don't even mean to spin the story and you won't ever get a group of people to agree what "impartial" is because personal beliefs will seep in.
        beaconstudios 8y ago
        the example BFE Arkansas headline you provided is just an impassionate reporting of the facts. I'd think a more right-wing biased headline would be something a bit more rah-rah and lauding 2A/castle doctrine.
        dsfyu404ed 8y ago
        >the example BFE Arkansas headline you provided is just an impassionate reporting of the facts. My point is that even if you are trying to write something that's impartial the tilt is still gonna depend on the author and society's (in that locale) attitude toward defending yourself with deadly force. The fact that you think that's impartial is your cultural bias creeping in. There's definitely people out there who will claim that particular headline is highly biased. In the US we're generally much more accepting of defending your home with deadly force than people in (for example) some parts of Europe are. Those people would see a headline with what we consider unnecessary tilt (e.g. calling an 18yo a "boy" to imply a younger age) and consider it impartial. One man's critical detail is irrelevant to another.
        beaconstudios 8y ago
cimmanom 8y ago
And then there’s the fake news that IS actual lies (sex trafficking ring out of a pizza parlor?)
- pixl97 8y ago
  And the other fake news, like Hollywood directors raping everyone around them, and then the police being complicit in not investigating it... I hope you see the problem here. Lots of things that were said to be lies have later come out to be the truth. Lots of people have lots of reasons to lie.
MaxBarraclough 8y ago
> You tell facts minus the details that would balance a story, so instead it’s weighted to the direction you want it to go. No, that's how it used to be. It's no longer newsworthy to see, ahem, certain figureheads, tell outright lie after outright lie. The problem of lies is absolutely a problem of, well, lies.
simula67 8y ago
> The problem of fake news isn’t actual lies, it’s framing. Agreed. Here is an example : https://i.imgur.com/3lSpqUP.jpg https://i.imgur.com/3lSpqUP.jpg Same facts, wildly different framing
jdietrich 8y ago
The biggest framing issue is simply what you choose to report. The news headlines implicitly tell us what is important in the world. The agenda can be drastically manipulated simply by choosing what issues to focus on and what issues to gloss over. If you look at the headlines and ask "what proportion of these stories materially affect my life?" or "what proportion of this information can I meaningfully act upon?", the news media takes on a very different complexion.

justinjlynn 8y ago

Modifying a story by purposefully editorialising the content in order to mislead the reader is effectively a lie of omission.

beobab 8y ago
"I swear to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth"?
Simon_says 8y ago
It's not that simple. You can't communicate every true fact, so any reporting will necessarily require judgement of what's necessary to report. There is a fine gradient from unbiased reporting to lying by omission.
- justinjlynn 8y ago
  The key distinction which makes the act a lie is the knowing and malicious manipulation of information in order to defraud the recipient of choice. That is, it is the deciet itself, and not merely the act of not conveying all known information, which is the anathema.
  - Simon_says 8y ago
    In practice, the people doing the reporting don't know how biased they are.
    - dsfyu404ed 8y ago
      This. If three 18yos get shot committing a home invasion the SF headline will say "man shoots teenagers on front porch, police say charges will not be filed" and the BFE Arkansas headline will say "three men attempt home invasion, shot by homeowner". The same exact story will be spun totally differently (without lying or making absurd omissions) based on the author's personal beliefs. The authors don't even mean to spin the story and you won't ever get a group of people to agree what "impartial" is because personal beliefs will seep in.
      - beaconstudios 8y ago
        the example BFE Arkansas headline you provided is just an impassionate reporting of the facts. I'd think a more right-wing biased headline would be something a bit more rah-rah and lauding 2A/castle doctrine.
        dsfyu404ed 8y ago
        >the example BFE Arkansas headline you provided is just an impassionate reporting of the facts. My point is that even if you are trying to write something that's impartial the tilt is still gonna depend on the author and society's (in that locale) attitude toward defending yourself with deadly force. The fact that you think that's impartial is your cultural bias creeping in. There's definitely people out there who will claim that particular headline is highly biased. In the US we're generally much more accepting of defending your home with deadly force than people in (for example) some parts of Europe are. Those people would see a headline with what we consider unnecessary tilt (e.g. calling an 18yo a "boy" to imply a younger age) and consider it impartial. One man's critical detail is irrelevant to another.
        beaconstudios 8y ago

cimmanom 8y ago

And then there’s the fake news that IS actual lies (sex trafficking ring out of a pizza parlor?)

pixl97 8y ago
And the other fake news, like Hollywood directors raping everyone around them, and then the police being complicit in not investigating it... I hope you see the problem here. Lots of things that were said to be lies have later come out to be the truth. Lots of people have lots of reasons to lie.

MaxBarraclough 8y ago

> You tell facts minus the details that would balance a story, so instead it’s weighted to the direction you want it to go. No, that's how it used to be. It's no longer newsworthy to see, ahem, certain figureheads, tell outright lie after outright lie. The problem of lies is absolutely a problem of, well, lies.

simula67 8y ago

> The problem of fake news isn’t actual lies, it’s framing. Agreed. Here is an example : https://i.imgur.com/3lSpqUP.jpg https://i.imgur.com/3lSpqUP.jpg Same facts, wildly different framing

jdietrich 8y ago

The biggest framing issue is simply what you choose to report. The news headlines implicitly tell us what is important in the world. The agenda can be drastically manipulated simply by choosing what issues to focus on and what issues to gloss over. If you look at the headlines and ask "what proportion of these stories materially affect my life?" or "what proportion of this information can I meaningfully act upon?", the news media takes on a very different complexion.