4 ms·

Forget UBIs and other bandaids. Just simply taxing their wealth away would transform society. Plutocratic governence won't end until there are no more plutocrat

Forget UBIs and other bandaids. Just simply taxing their wealth away would transform society. Plutocratic governence won't end until there are no more plutocrats.

rectang 8y ago
This is why I object to the "who cares about inequality if all boats are rising" argument. Massive disparities of wealth lead to massive disparities of political power and a government which serves the interests of plutocrats above all other concerns.
- closeparen 8y ago
  And yet populism is soundly defeating the global business community for votes.
samstave 8y ago
My problem with this is simply that I feel that tax money is irresponsibly spent. Infra in the US is crumbling, we prop-up the profits of the same companies we are talking about taxing and defend them with the military that we pay for from the taxed wages of the people who work for said entities... Its a pretty bad loop of corruption and inefficiencies. I'd love to see a true accounting of how money is taxed, allocated spent and wasted. Just because something is "taxed" doesnt mean that the funds are used correctly - look at the Lotto, gas taxes and the recycling tax fund which was looted.
ta1234567890 8y ago
Agreed. However, how do you make them tax themselves? The super-elite control politics and government, so why would they tax themselves more? How do you create the proper incentives for that to happen?
- jumelles 8y ago
  They'll never agree to it; we just have to outnumber them and outvote them.
  - LarryDarrell 8y ago
    And that is where the true brilliance of the Culture War comes in... we're going to have to ride this train until the last stop while all the passengers are arguing about kneeling NFL players or something.
  - AlexB138 8y ago
    Our government is actually set up, quite intentionally, to avoid making this possible. It's one of the core purposes of a republic. You can go back and read Plato discussing the exact idea that democracy is dangerous because the poor will vote to rob the rich.
    - viburnum 8y ago
      It's a fact that the US constitution is garbage.
cocoa19 8y ago
Unless all developed countries organize to tax wealthy people, why would wealthy people invest in countries that tax their wealth away? If countries don't play ball with rich people, they can just move to another country that is more "business friendly" (including low taxes). What am I missing?
- maxxxxx 8y ago
  You are missing the fact that tax is not the only factor for people to stay. California is an expensive state by most measures but somehow it doesn't seem to have a problem keeping rich people in state.
  - rvense 8y ago
    California has high taxes and great universities. This is why I'm quite perplexed that, even though many in my country state that they want to copy California's success, they are trying to do so by (among other things) lowering taxes and ruining our universities.
  - nine_k 8y ago
    How many big corps are incorporated in California? How many rich people control their wealth via some Cayman islands subsidiaries, etc? Having a nice $30M home in California is likely a small expense for the ultra-rich the article talk about.
    - maxxxxx 8y ago
      Are you saying California is not a state with a lot of people having well-paid jobs and a lot of wealthy people? Would the state do better if it decided to lower taxes for the wealthy?
  - jerf 8y ago
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/patrickgleason/2018/07/06/millionaires-flee-california-after-tax-hike/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/patrickgleason/2018/07/06/milli... Not the only ones either: https://www.cnbc.com/2018/03/19/californians-fed-up-with-housing-costs-and-taxes-are-fleeing-state.html https://www.cnbc.com/2018/03/19/californians-fed-up-with-hou... Not saying it's a 100% exodus, but I'd definitely not call it "no problem".
yarou 8y ago
It’s a complex issue. What it comes down to is that fiat currency itself is the problem. The super elites, 1%, etc all have Disney bucks that are backed by nothing. The truth of the matter is, we have hyperinflation in this country. Prices always lag behind inflation, but if there is a serious trade war, the consumer is really going to feel the pain. $100 used to mean $100 worth of gold specie. We need to go back to the gold standard, otherwise monetary and fiscal policy, including UBI, will be worthless bandaids.
wahern 8y ago
Yes, it'd be just as transformative as it was in Cuba and Venezuela.

Forget UBIs and other bandaids. Just simply taxing their wealth away would transform society. Plutocratic governence won't end until there are no more plutocrats.

rectang 8y ago

This is why I object to the "who cares about inequality if all boats are rising" argument. Massive disparities of wealth lead to massive disparities of political power and a government which serves the interests of plutocrats above all other concerns.

closeparen 8y ago
And yet populism is soundly defeating the global business community for votes.

samstave 8y ago

My problem with this is simply that I feel that tax money is irresponsibly spent. Infra in the US is crumbling, we prop-up the profits of the same companies we are talking about taxing and defend them with the military that we pay for from the taxed wages of the people who work for said entities... Its a pretty bad loop of corruption and inefficiencies. I'd love to see a true accounting of how money is taxed, allocated spent and wasted. Just because something is "taxed" doesnt mean that the funds are used correctly - look at the Lotto, gas taxes and the recycling tax fund which was looted.

ta1234567890 8y ago

Agreed. However, how do you make them tax themselves? The super-elite control politics and government, so why would they tax themselves more? How do you create the proper incentives for that to happen?

jumelles 8y ago
They'll never agree to it; we just have to outnumber them and outvote them.
- LarryDarrell 8y ago
  And that is where the true brilliance of the Culture War comes in... we're going to have to ride this train until the last stop while all the passengers are arguing about kneeling NFL players or something.
- AlexB138 8y ago
  Our government is actually set up, quite intentionally, to avoid making this possible. It's one of the core purposes of a republic. You can go back and read Plato discussing the exact idea that democracy is dangerous because the poor will vote to rob the rich.
  - viburnum 8y ago
    It's a fact that the US constitution is garbage.

cocoa19 8y ago

Unless all developed countries organize to tax wealthy people, why would wealthy people invest in countries that tax their wealth away? If countries don't play ball with rich people, they can just move to another country that is more "business friendly" (including low taxes). What am I missing?

maxxxxx 8y ago
You are missing the fact that tax is not the only factor for people to stay. California is an expensive state by most measures but somehow it doesn't seem to have a problem keeping rich people in state.
- rvense 8y ago
  California has high taxes and great universities. This is why I'm quite perplexed that, even though many in my country state that they want to copy California's success, they are trying to do so by (among other things) lowering taxes and ruining our universities.
- nine_k 8y ago
  How many big corps are incorporated in California? How many rich people control their wealth via some Cayman islands subsidiaries, etc? Having a nice $30M home in California is likely a small expense for the ultra-rich the article talk about.
  - maxxxxx 8y ago
    Are you saying California is not a state with a lot of people having well-paid jobs and a lot of wealthy people? Would the state do better if it decided to lower taxes for the wealthy?
- jerf 8y ago
  https://www.forbes.com/sites/patrickgleason/2018/07/06/millionaires-flee-california-after-tax-hike/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/patrickgleason/2018/07/06/milli... Not the only ones either: https://www.cnbc.com/2018/03/19/californians-fed-up-with-housing-costs-and-taxes-are-fleeing-state.html https://www.cnbc.com/2018/03/19/californians-fed-up-with-hou... Not saying it's a 100% exodus, but I'd definitely not call it "no problem".

yarou 8y ago

It’s a complex issue. What it comes down to is that fiat currency itself is the problem. The super elites, 1%, etc all have Disney bucks that are backed by nothing. The truth of the matter is, we have hyperinflation in this country. Prices always lag behind inflation, but if there is a serious trade war, the consumer is really going to feel the pain. $100 used to mean $100 worth of gold specie. We need to go back to the gold standard, otherwise monetary and fiscal policy, including UBI, will be worthless bandaids.

wahern 8y ago

Yes, it'd be just as transformative as it was in Cuba and Venezuela.