5 ms·

Kids should be weaned off tablets just like infants are weaned off milk and induced to use their teeth. The thing that really bothers me is, as Alan Kay says:

Kids should be weaned off tablets just like infants are weaned off milk and induced to use their teeth. The thing that really bothers me is, as Alan Kay says: The ipad interface is designed for 2-year-olds and 82-year-olds and being forced upon everyone in between. See, eg: https://www.fastcompany.com/40435064/what-alan-kay-thinks-about-the-iphone-and-technology-now https://www.fastcompany.com/40435064/what-alan-kay-thinks-ab... It is a de-evolution of problem-solving culture in the sense that people are discouraged from using more sophisticated tools to step up their game! "There's an app for that" culture implies that you don't need to learn to compose tools to solve problems -- sit back and consume somebody else's hard work. While that does simplify computers so that more people can use it in the short-term, it also strips away the whole purpose of computing, which is to empower people with a more advanced tool. That's what human cultural/civilizational evolution has been about -- from stone tools, to metals, to the industrial revolution, to the information/computing revolution. Forcing people to interact by tapping on graphical interfaces is to step backwards to caveman levels of communication: point and grunt. We're giving up on human language, writing and tool use, just so that people can avoid learning a little! Not knowing to use a keyboard is not bad as such, if one's typing speed on a touchscreen can be as effective. But that's hard---at least for someone who hasn't grown up with touchscreens all over the place---and I had to switch from my phone to my laptop to type this long-ish comment! And the amount of typing, editing, reorganizing and adding links that I had to do would have been extremely difficult to do on a phone interface. Giving in to that barrier can so easily stop one from creating/contributing, and going into a passive consumption mode!

flogic 8y ago
This kinda captures one of my concerns. While I could care less about the particulars of how people interact with computers, I do find it concerning that modern devices seem to make general purpose computing less accessible. I love my phone but I haven't even found a decent calculator for it much less a tolerable equivalent of Excel, the shell, or programming environment. Part of me suspects it's an inherent limitation in touch IUs but that also seems like a cop out.
- earenndil 8y ago
  I dunno about android, but on ios I've found a perfectly capable calculator, and it looks like both ms and google have made their spreadsheet apps (or some version thereof) available. As for programming, I have no inclination to program on a tiny screen with an awful keyboard.
- crtasm 8y ago
  Termux for shell on android.
  - BenjiWiebe 8y ago
    Same as I use. And I love JuiceSSH for ssh.
- tryptophan 8y ago
  You can emulate a full graphing calculator using wabbitEMU.
- 0xCMP 8y ago
  This is my calculator of choice on iOS. https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/tydlig/id721606556?mt=8 https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/tydlig/id721606556?mt=8
  - flogic 8y ago
    Sadly, I use an Android and can't say if this is what I would want but it seems on a better path. Most things I've seen for Android are replicating a traditional graphing calculator. Which suffers from 2 major problems. One, graphing calculators already have confusing UIs. Two, the tiny buttons that work tolerably physically are much less tolerable on a touch screen.
- annabellish 8y ago
  >tolerable equivalent of Excel You can get _actual_ excel. Google Sheets is also pretty decent. I don't think there's a libreoffice implementation, unfortunately. >the shell On Android, at least, actual shells are available. Most useful if you have root, but even without they're still shells, just ones without elevated permissions. >or programming environment There's, surprisingly, actually a few, though I don't think any are really competitive with x86 environments. There's plenty of good ssh clients if you're happy to remote somewhere else, certainly. Notably, all of the above options I find basically intolerable on any touch device without an active stylus, and the latter two without a physical keyboard. Such devices certainly exist, though. A galaxy note with a bluetooth keyboard is surprisingly useful in a pinch, though you're always compromising with something that small.
UncleEntity 8y ago
> While that does simplify computers so that more people can use it in the short-term, it also strips away the whole purpose of computing, which is to empower people with a more advanced tool. Back in Sumeria they used to go on and on about how this newfangled writing thing would destroy civilization because it took the personal element out of interpersonal communication. Just because the majority of people don't concern themselves with learning the intimate details of how a computer works doesn't in any way imply their lives aren't "empowered" through their interactions with one. Having the world's knowledge at one's fingertips (or voice prompt) is arguably a lot more valuable than having the requirement to construct a complex query to find out where writing was invented. You can lead a horse to water...
- skgoa 8y ago
  > Back in Sumeria they used to go on and on about how this newfangled writing thing would destroy civilization because it took the personal element out of interpersonal communication. I remember reading an old rant by someone (I want to say letter sent to a newspaper) who complained that the grammophone will destroy music.
  - jpatokal 8y ago
    In a sense it did: I'd wager that being able to play an instrument or sing well is rarer these days than it was before the gramophone. That said, I'll still take Spotify and access to all the music in the world over random neighbors playing the fiddle any day.
    - IggleSniggle 8y ago
      Not me! Sometimes, but not every time. I grew up in a family of musicians and I really miss the social element of just plunking down next to someone to share in performing a song. Closest experience I’ve had to it is couch multiplayer video games, but it’s still not the same. Still do see the occasional person with a guitar on the porch, but I can’t help but think it would a lot more common and a lot more fun without recorded music.
  - 8y ago

flogic 8y ago

This kinda captures one of my concerns. While I could care less about the particulars of how people interact with computers, I do find it concerning that modern devices seem to make general purpose computing less accessible. I love my phone but I haven't even found a decent calculator for it much less a tolerable equivalent of Excel, the shell, or programming environment. Part of me suspects it's an inherent limitation in touch IUs but that also seems like a cop out.

earenndil 8y ago
I dunno about android, but on ios I've found a perfectly capable calculator, and it looks like both ms and google have made their spreadsheet apps (or some version thereof) available. As for programming, I have no inclination to program on a tiny screen with an awful keyboard.
crtasm 8y ago
Termux for shell on android.
- BenjiWiebe 8y ago
  Same as I use. And I love JuiceSSH for ssh.
tryptophan 8y ago
You can emulate a full graphing calculator using wabbitEMU.
0xCMP 8y ago
This is my calculator of choice on iOS. https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/tydlig/id721606556?mt=8 https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/tydlig/id721606556?mt=8
- flogic 8y ago
  Sadly, I use an Android and can't say if this is what I would want but it seems on a better path. Most things I've seen for Android are replicating a traditional graphing calculator. Which suffers from 2 major problems. One, graphing calculators already have confusing UIs. Two, the tiny buttons that work tolerably physically are much less tolerable on a touch screen.
annabellish 8y ago
>tolerable equivalent of Excel You can get _actual_ excel. Google Sheets is also pretty decent. I don't think there's a libreoffice implementation, unfortunately. >the shell On Android, at least, actual shells are available. Most useful if you have root, but even without they're still shells, just ones without elevated permissions. >or programming environment There's, surprisingly, actually a few, though I don't think any are really competitive with x86 environments. There's plenty of good ssh clients if you're happy to remote somewhere else, certainly. Notably, all of the above options I find basically intolerable on any touch device without an active stylus, and the latter two without a physical keyboard. Such devices certainly exist, though. A galaxy note with a bluetooth keyboard is surprisingly useful in a pinch, though you're always compromising with something that small.

UncleEntity 8y ago

> While that does simplify computers so that more people can use it in the short-term, it also strips away the whole purpose of computing, which is to empower people with a more advanced tool. Back in Sumeria they used to go on and on about how this newfangled writing thing would destroy civilization because it took the personal element out of interpersonal communication. Just because the majority of people don't concern themselves with learning the intimate details of how a computer works doesn't in any way imply their lives aren't "empowered" through their interactions with one. Having the world's knowledge at one's fingertips (or voice prompt) is arguably a lot more valuable than having the requirement to construct a complex query to find out where writing was invented. You can lead a horse to water...

skgoa 8y ago
> Back in Sumeria they used to go on and on about how this newfangled writing thing would destroy civilization because it took the personal element out of interpersonal communication. I remember reading an old rant by someone (I want to say letter sent to a newspaper) who complained that the grammophone will destroy music.
- jpatokal 8y ago
  In a sense it did: I'd wager that being able to play an instrument or sing well is rarer these days than it was before the gramophone. That said, I'll still take Spotify and access to all the music in the world over random neighbors playing the fiddle any day.
  - IggleSniggle 8y ago
    Not me! Sometimes, but not every time. I grew up in a family of musicians and I really miss the social element of just plunking down next to someone to share in performing a song. Closest experience I’ve had to it is couch multiplayer video games, but it’s still not the same. Still do see the occasional person with a guitar on the porch, but I can’t help but think it would a lot more common and a lot more fun without recorded music.
- 8y ago