5 ms·

That is a nice fantasy. I don't see it applying for most people tho. I know exactly zero people who do contract/remote work and don't struggle to make a living,

by erikb 8y ago

That is a nice fantasy. I don't see it applying for most people tho. I know exactly zero people who do contract/remote work and don't struggle to make a living, even in a cheaper area. The hardest part is to get any decent paying contracts. You might have some advantage that is not even clear to you. Maybe you worked in a big company for 10 years and now can gather work through contacts from there. Maybe your father is well known in the industry you work. Something like that.

fakeempire 8y ago
erikb, I'm not writing this to be rude, but I am hoping it can change your perspective a little. Every sentence in your reply is so negative. You almost certainly won't get something you want if you think it's impossible. It means you wont bother trying. You have an excuse for everything. Its completely possible. I've worked for a large company for 2 years and made it happen. I know plenty of other people that do it as well. The attitude in your comment was such a bummer I had to log in for the first time in years just to respond. Try to be more positive and go after what you want. Have a good rest of the weekend.
- anothergoogler 8y ago
  I think parent is right to point out that remote/contract work is more tenuous than the alternative in most cases. I also found your comment aggressive and nasty... the irony of the "stop being negative" put-down.
  - fakeempire 8y ago
    Sorry it came off that way. I'll keep that in mind next time I comment.
    - sverige 8y ago
      Your comment above didn't come off as negative to me fwiw. I had the same reaction. The error in thought is limiting his perspective to people he knows personally, which of course can make it seem unlikely or impossible. For example, I don't personally know anyone who lives and works in Silicon Valley and doesn't struggle to make a living, but I do understand that it would be possible for me to try to do so if that was my desire.
      - njoro 8y ago
        I think he is mostly correct though. "If you have a good resume and live 30 minutes outside even a small town, but you also have to drive everywhere" isn't really comparable to the "standard deal" in a city.
- erikb 8y ago
  This is not negative, this is called objective. The bear eats fish. That is nice and relaxing for the bear, but really painful for the fish. And there is not much the fish can do about it. Will the positive thinking fish get better results? No. Has the bear an innate advantage in that exchange? Yep. Is it negative to say that the bear has innate advantage? Nope. If you think that your success comes from happy thoughts I bet you are in a similar good situation as the bear. E.g. compare a western european software manager to his developer comrades in eastern europe offices. Independent of his skill he can make $70-150k a year. Most of his programmers will be in other countries where even people 5x his skill and putting in 3x his hours will earn around $18k/year. (Example could be Munich vs Brno, 600 km apart) Who do you think can achieve more with his happy thoughts? I don't say "do something for the poor". I don't say "you are bad for having an advantage". What I want to make sure is that one knows about ones advantage and that others can't easily copy it. In fact ignoring that difference is quite assholey.
vinceguidry 8y ago
Yes, you need to break into the industry before anyone will take you seriously as a candidate. So maybe add in at the top: 1. Go live in the US long enough to get established in the industry. It's still out of reach for most people in the world, but not even San Francisco can employ literally everyone.
- mrhappyunhappy 8y ago
  I can’t say I agree. I started freelancing in a brand new (to me) industry just 2 years ago with zero contacts and have been doing alright. I think a lot depends on your attitude, work ethic, desire to learn and self improve. Being nice and authentic with everyone you engage with is probably helpful too. I didn’t know anyone in the states and I certainly don’t know anyone in my country and it hasn’t been a deal breaker.
  - erikb 8y ago
    Still you are probably male, white, born in Western Europe or US, etc. I found even some little things like how people style their hair, if they use face masks to keep their face clean, if they paid for teeth whitening/straightening in the past, can make a difference. In some regards that is attitute, true. But the kind you can't really learn growing up in the countryside for instance, or can't afford from the pay you get in some countries. One of the best programmers I know has even some black teeth. He'll never be invited to a meeting where financially sound contracts are made.
  - rorykoehler 8y ago
    What was your sales strategy to get started?
badpun 8y ago
You don't need to become a contractor, you can just work remotely from Europe for a US company. So, you just one job offer.
- erikb 8y ago
  True about 60% I'd said. You will be surprised though how two different people, one white-male the other asian-female will get offered for the very same job with the very same skills.
noelwelsh 8y ago
Here are three companies off the top of my head that offer remote positions as standard: IOHK, Github, Stripe. Those jobs are certainly out there.
- erikb 8y ago
  Actually I'm going to check them out. Thanks. Last I checked for that was Wordpress and they paid like $1500/month if I remember correctly.
jasonkester 8y ago
You might have some advantage Keep in mind that the first 10 odd years of your career out of school should be all about building that advantage. You want to hit your 30s in a state of Embarrassing Employability, where another amazing contract gig is just an email or two, or a Twitter status update away. Spend your entire 20s amassing a collections of artifacts you can point to to demonstrate how good you are at all this stuff, and a horde of ex-bosses and ex-co-workers to whom your name springs first to mind when asked by somebody who needs a guy to do that stuff if they know The Guy. So yes, absolutely. Get an advantage. But know that the short list of "built in" ones you gave above is not comprehensive. The best advantages are the ones you construct yourself.
- njoro 8y ago
  Sure, but those aren't the people struggling. People with successful careers and property in the Bay Area have probably seen both their salary and property value double in the last ten years. Which is pretty hard to beat anywhere else.
- erikb 8y ago
  bullshit
rorykoehler 8y ago
Just checking in. I have been remote ~10 years now apart from when I ran my own startup that was running location specific ops. I now work as CTO for a listed company completely remotely even though we also have offices in a few countries. I also have a completely remote team working on a new startup (currently side project status for me but full-time for the team). I can assure you none of us have any trouble earning a living.

by erikb 8y ago

fakeempire 8y ago

erikb, I'm not writing this to be rude, but I am hoping it can change your perspective a little. Every sentence in your reply is so negative. You almost certainly won't get something you want if you think it's impossible. It means you wont bother trying. You have an excuse for everything. Its completely possible. I've worked for a large company for 2 years and made it happen. I know plenty of other people that do it as well. The attitude in your comment was such a bummer I had to log in for the first time in years just to respond. Try to be more positive and go after what you want. Have a good rest of the weekend.

anothergoogler 8y ago
I think parent is right to point out that remote/contract work is more tenuous than the alternative in most cases. I also found your comment aggressive and nasty... the irony of the "stop being negative" put-down.
- fakeempire 8y ago
  Sorry it came off that way. I'll keep that in mind next time I comment.
  - sverige 8y ago
    Your comment above didn't come off as negative to me fwiw. I had the same reaction. The error in thought is limiting his perspective to people he knows personally, which of course can make it seem unlikely or impossible. For example, I don't personally know anyone who lives and works in Silicon Valley and doesn't struggle to make a living, but I do understand that it would be possible for me to try to do so if that was my desire.
    - njoro 8y ago
      I think he is mostly correct though. "If you have a good resume and live 30 minutes outside even a small town, but you also have to drive everywhere" isn't really comparable to the "standard deal" in a city.
erikb 8y ago
This is not negative, this is called objective. The bear eats fish. That is nice and relaxing for the bear, but really painful for the fish. And there is not much the fish can do about it. Will the positive thinking fish get better results? No. Has the bear an innate advantage in that exchange? Yep. Is it negative to say that the bear has innate advantage? Nope. If you think that your success comes from happy thoughts I bet you are in a similar good situation as the bear. E.g. compare a western european software manager to his developer comrades in eastern europe offices. Independent of his skill he can make $70-150k a year. Most of his programmers will be in other countries where even people 5x his skill and putting in 3x his hours will earn around $18k/year. (Example could be Munich vs Brno, 600 km apart) Who do you think can achieve more with his happy thoughts? I don't say "do something for the poor". I don't say "you are bad for having an advantage". What I want to make sure is that one knows about ones advantage and that others can't easily copy it. In fact ignoring that difference is quite assholey.

vinceguidry 8y ago

Yes, you need to break into the industry before anyone will take you seriously as a candidate. So maybe add in at the top: 1. Go live in the US long enough to get established in the industry. It's still out of reach for most people in the world, but not even San Francisco can employ literally everyone.

mrhappyunhappy 8y ago
I can’t say I agree. I started freelancing in a brand new (to me) industry just 2 years ago with zero contacts and have been doing alright. I think a lot depends on your attitude, work ethic, desire to learn and self improve. Being nice and authentic with everyone you engage with is probably helpful too. I didn’t know anyone in the states and I certainly don’t know anyone in my country and it hasn’t been a deal breaker.
- erikb 8y ago
  Still you are probably male, white, born in Western Europe or US, etc. I found even some little things like how people style their hair, if they use face masks to keep their face clean, if they paid for teeth whitening/straightening in the past, can make a difference. In some regards that is attitute, true. But the kind you can't really learn growing up in the countryside for instance, or can't afford from the pay you get in some countries. One of the best programmers I know has even some black teeth. He'll never be invited to a meeting where financially sound contracts are made.
- rorykoehler 8y ago
  What was your sales strategy to get started?

badpun 8y ago

You don't need to become a contractor, you can just work remotely from Europe for a US company. So, you just one job offer.

erikb 8y ago
True about 60% I'd said. You will be surprised though how two different people, one white-male the other asian-female will get offered for the very same job with the very same skills.

noelwelsh 8y ago

Here are three companies off the top of my head that offer remote positions as standard: IOHK, Github, Stripe. Those jobs are certainly out there.

erikb 8y ago
Actually I'm going to check them out. Thanks. Last I checked for that was Wordpress and they paid like $1500/month if I remember correctly.

jasonkester 8y ago

You might have some advantage Keep in mind that the first 10 odd years of your career out of school should be all about building that advantage. You want to hit your 30s in a state of Embarrassing Employability, where another amazing contract gig is just an email or two, or a Twitter status update away. Spend your entire 20s amassing a collections of artifacts you can point to to demonstrate how good you are at all this stuff, and a horde of ex-bosses and ex-co-workers to whom your name springs first to mind when asked by somebody who needs a guy to do that stuff if they know The Guy. So yes, absolutely. Get an advantage. But know that the short list of "built in" ones you gave above is not comprehensive. The best advantages are the ones you construct yourself.

njoro 8y ago
Sure, but those aren't the people struggling. People with successful careers and property in the Bay Area have probably seen both their salary and property value double in the last ten years. Which is pretty hard to beat anywhere else.
erikb 8y ago
bullshit

rorykoehler 8y ago

Just checking in. I have been remote ~10 years now apart from when I ran my own startup that was running location specific ops. I now work as CTO for a listed company completely remotely even though we also have offices in a few countries. I also have a completely remote team working on a new startup (currently side project status for me but full-time for the team). I can assure you none of us have any trouble earning a living.