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If you aren't actually creating content [art, software, serious writing, etc] then using a mobile is fine for just consuming and it isn't surprising that these

If you aren't actually creating content [art, software, serious writing, etc] then using a mobile is fine for just consuming and it isn't surprising that these groups don't know how to use a computer. It is sad though, that young people appear to be less computer literate in terms of creating content (as an overall percentage of previous generations).

acct1771 8y ago
Less literate in terms of creating anything.
- dsego 8y ago
  Probably because there is an abundance of creative work around us, so there is less incentive to be creative yourself.
  - ganzuul 8y ago
    Creative-commercial and creative-inspired are very different things. If all you ever experience is the uninspired stuff you might not have much faith in art.
- bachbach 8y ago
  I agree and I'm in this group. I blame the duration of modern education. It has made newer generations less flexible. Institutionalization. It's a paradox because the Internet has made the pollination of ideas more likely - but we are less likely to do new things, we stay in our boxes. This shows up in the productivity and entrepreneurship statistics. It may be true that wages are poor and rents are high - but also we're really not helping ourselves. Rates of self built homes should be increasing among young people but I don't see that. Usually over the years a generation gets richer but I suspect many young people with 'careers' are waiting for a golden goose. If you are aged > 30 and rent in a major city and earn less than 40k-60k per year - you need to wake up and get out before you become a poor middle aged person. Most people my age from university are living like students a decade after leaving the university. Having to live with your parents or live in a house share cannot be half your adult life if you have a successful career, nor can forking most of your income over to a landlord. HN's residents are an anomaly in the broader economy and their experience is alien to most of their generation.
  - mikebelanger 8y ago
    Part of the reason for the decline in self-built in homes is advancements in modular home building. They're much better, and more economical than ever before. Even my Dad, who self-built two large homes himself, admitted it doesn't make sense to self-build. One is better off just working more in whatever specialty they do, and getting a modular home.
    - bachbach 8y ago
      We're not buying those either. I've seen only one prefab in my area. We're not even building Tiny Houses. That movement has faded away as the land permission issue dominated over their advantages. Meanwhile: https://youtu.be/M73r32vK7C4 https://youtu.be/M73r32vK7C4 That's not a joke - there is a steep decline in being 'handy' - I'm doing everything I can to learn how to be but it still feels a bit unnatural. That lack of adaptability is like an extra tax. I don't think my parents are more handy either, but that's a generation that bought their houses at 5x-15x lower prices so millennials like me could really do with being more hands on. To put this in perspective, my father bought his house for 40k 20 years ago and now it is valued at least 250k. I earn about the same as he did 20 years ago and I suspect I earn more per hour than my university peers. Bluntly - they're poor - the most sensitive subject you could talk about is how much you earn. That's private. It's not the cost of equipment that's the problem. The cost of good power tools is lower than before and they're more effective. Materials prices are higher but not that much. The big constraint is psychological, possibly followed up by permissions for building. There's a weird psychology with this subject - weird to hear it described but it's there. Somehow not having a house is believed to be less impoverished than going and building one. Count me out! I don't think forking over half your earnings to a landlord is sophisticated. I remember talking to people about the Tiny House concept and I got the strong impression that living in a modest self built dwelling was an admission of poverty.
      - dorchadas 8y ago
        I feel the biggest issue with owning a house is the amount of debt recent college graduates are already in. If I didn't have my student loans hanging over me, I would've totally gone and bought a house, or built my own (everyone in my family has built their own, pretty much, so I have a wealth of knowledge to draw on thankfully). But, I can't afford it. I feel that's part of the issue with many people choosing to pay rent over building. Not to mention trying to save so you have a decent down payment size.
- terrywilcox 8y ago
  This is true of every generation that has grown up with computers and video games. It's also true of any generation that grew up with manufactured items. Really, our ability to create has declined with our need to create. Who needs to make their own clothes these days?
xexers 8y ago
> If you aren't actually creating content [art, software, serious writing, etc] then using a mobile is fine I've seen some serious art been made using ipads and even mobile phones alone. Hang out with creative teenagers and you'll see it too. There are entire video editing suites on ipad that can create slick videos entirely with touch gestures. https://www.imore.com/why-i-love-editing-video-ipad-it-can-still-be-lot-better https://www.imore.com/why-i-love-editing-video-ipad-it-can-s...
- jdietrich 8y ago
  The iPad is a fabulous music-making tool. A lot of people with fully equipped recording studios prefer to use the iPad when they're sketching out ideas, because they find it easier to stay in a creative mindset. Several artists have recorded and mixed albums entirely on the iPad. The BBC now routinely use iPhones for TV and radio newsgathering; they have developed an in-house app for capturing content and directly ingesting it to their media asset system. Many radio stations use the LUCI Live app for remote contributors. http://www.bbc.co.uk/academy/journalism/article/art20160420122405469 http://www.bbc.co.uk/academy/journalism/article/art201604201... http://www.luci.eu/products/luci-live/ http://www.luci.eu/products/luci-live/
  - gaius 8y ago
    The BBC now routinely use iPhones for TV and radio newsgathering They also routinely report "someone said something on Twitter" as if it was actual news. It doesn't mean it's a good idea.
mikebelanger 8y ago
Unfortunately I get this impression too. I teach digital multimedia (even that's a dated term) workshops to young adults (mostly early 20s) with mental disabilities. We use 'old fashioned' computers with a mouse and keyboard. What I've noticed is the their proficiency with touchscreen related technologies is just as good as any young adult. However their proficiency with a 'traditional' computer is somewhat lower. But until this article, I wasn't sure if my observation was true for the entire young adult population, or just those with mental disabilities. Now, I don't think there's anything sacred about using a traditional computer - the paradigm of moving a mouse and QWERTY keyboard is kind of strange, when you step back and think about it. What's concerning is that touchscreen-enabled apps tend to be more consumerist, and less conducive to creative endeavors than traditional computers. Maybe I'm just tooting my own horn here, but I think it's more important to reason with spreadsheets, write posts, and even make a video with graphics than how to use Amazon Kindle/Fire/Whatever nonsense tablet they've decided to push out there. Even just making a site used to be this creative endeavor, something you figured out by looking around at source code on Geocities' sites. Now we (myself included) just type text into fields, who's html/css/backend has been configured by someone else.
terrywilcox 8y ago
>It is sad though, that young people appear to be less computer literate in terms of creating content (as an overall percentage of previous generations). Previous generations? How many generations back do you imagine widespread computer use to go? Jerry Pournelle was considered cutting edge for using a word processor to write as early as 1977. Adobe Illustrator is from 1987 and Photoshop is from 1990. There haven't been a whole lot of generations in the 41 years since the Apple II was released (about 2 generations, given 20 years per generation). I can tell you that kids from my generation (baby boomers) had almost no computer literacy. Most of us never even touched a computer until adulthood (if then).

acct1771 8y ago

Less literate in terms of creating anything.

dsego 8y ago
Probably because there is an abundance of creative work around us, so there is less incentive to be creative yourself.
- ganzuul 8y ago
  Creative-commercial and creative-inspired are very different things. If all you ever experience is the uninspired stuff you might not have much faith in art.
bachbach 8y ago
I agree and I'm in this group. I blame the duration of modern education. It has made newer generations less flexible. Institutionalization. It's a paradox because the Internet has made the pollination of ideas more likely - but we are less likely to do new things, we stay in our boxes. This shows up in the productivity and entrepreneurship statistics. It may be true that wages are poor and rents are high - but also we're really not helping ourselves. Rates of self built homes should be increasing among young people but I don't see that. Usually over the years a generation gets richer but I suspect many young people with 'careers' are waiting for a golden goose. If you are aged > 30 and rent in a major city and earn less than 40k-60k per year - you need to wake up and get out before you become a poor middle aged person. Most people my age from university are living like students a decade after leaving the university. Having to live with your parents or live in a house share cannot be half your adult life if you have a successful career, nor can forking most of your income over to a landlord. HN's residents are an anomaly in the broader economy and their experience is alien to most of their generation.
- mikebelanger 8y ago
  Part of the reason for the decline in self-built in homes is advancements in modular home building. They're much better, and more economical than ever before. Even my Dad, who self-built two large homes himself, admitted it doesn't make sense to self-build. One is better off just working more in whatever specialty they do, and getting a modular home.
  - bachbach 8y ago
    We're not buying those either. I've seen only one prefab in my area. We're not even building Tiny Houses. That movement has faded away as the land permission issue dominated over their advantages. Meanwhile: https://youtu.be/M73r32vK7C4 https://youtu.be/M73r32vK7C4 That's not a joke - there is a steep decline in being 'handy' - I'm doing everything I can to learn how to be but it still feels a bit unnatural. That lack of adaptability is like an extra tax. I don't think my parents are more handy either, but that's a generation that bought their houses at 5x-15x lower prices so millennials like me could really do with being more hands on. To put this in perspective, my father bought his house for 40k 20 years ago and now it is valued at least 250k. I earn about the same as he did 20 years ago and I suspect I earn more per hour than my university peers. Bluntly - they're poor - the most sensitive subject you could talk about is how much you earn. That's private. It's not the cost of equipment that's the problem. The cost of good power tools is lower than before and they're more effective. Materials prices are higher but not that much. The big constraint is psychological, possibly followed up by permissions for building. There's a weird psychology with this subject - weird to hear it described but it's there. Somehow not having a house is believed to be less impoverished than going and building one. Count me out! I don't think forking over half your earnings to a landlord is sophisticated. I remember talking to people about the Tiny House concept and I got the strong impression that living in a modest self built dwelling was an admission of poverty.
    - dorchadas 8y ago
      I feel the biggest issue with owning a house is the amount of debt recent college graduates are already in. If I didn't have my student loans hanging over me, I would've totally gone and bought a house, or built my own (everyone in my family has built their own, pretty much, so I have a wealth of knowledge to draw on thankfully). But, I can't afford it. I feel that's part of the issue with many people choosing to pay rent over building. Not to mention trying to save so you have a decent down payment size.
terrywilcox 8y ago
This is true of every generation that has grown up with computers and video games. It's also true of any generation that grew up with manufactured items. Really, our ability to create has declined with our need to create. Who needs to make their own clothes these days?

xexers 8y ago

> If you aren't actually creating content [art, software, serious writing, etc] then using a mobile is fine I've seen some serious art been made using ipads and even mobile phones alone. Hang out with creative teenagers and you'll see it too. There are entire video editing suites on ipad that can create slick videos entirely with touch gestures. https://www.imore.com/why-i-love-editing-video-ipad-it-can-still-be-lot-better https://www.imore.com/why-i-love-editing-video-ipad-it-can-s...

jdietrich 8y ago
The iPad is a fabulous music-making tool. A lot of people with fully equipped recording studios prefer to use the iPad when they're sketching out ideas, because they find it easier to stay in a creative mindset. Several artists have recorded and mixed albums entirely on the iPad. The BBC now routinely use iPhones for TV and radio newsgathering; they have developed an in-house app for capturing content and directly ingesting it to their media asset system. Many radio stations use the LUCI Live app for remote contributors. http://www.bbc.co.uk/academy/journalism/article/art20160420122405469 http://www.bbc.co.uk/academy/journalism/article/art201604201... http://www.luci.eu/products/luci-live/ http://www.luci.eu/products/luci-live/
- gaius 8y ago
  The BBC now routinely use iPhones for TV and radio newsgathering They also routinely report "someone said something on Twitter" as if it was actual news. It doesn't mean it's a good idea.

mikebelanger 8y ago

Unfortunately I get this impression too. I teach digital multimedia (even that's a dated term) workshops to young adults (mostly early 20s) with mental disabilities. We use 'old fashioned' computers with a mouse and keyboard. What I've noticed is the their proficiency with touchscreen related technologies is just as good as any young adult. However their proficiency with a 'traditional' computer is somewhat lower. But until this article, I wasn't sure if my observation was true for the entire young adult population, or just those with mental disabilities. Now, I don't think there's anything sacred about using a traditional computer - the paradigm of moving a mouse and QWERTY keyboard is kind of strange, when you step back and think about it. What's concerning is that touchscreen-enabled apps tend to be more consumerist, and less conducive to creative endeavors than traditional computers. Maybe I'm just tooting my own horn here, but I think it's more important to reason with spreadsheets, write posts, and even make a video with graphics than how to use Amazon Kindle/Fire/Whatever nonsense tablet they've decided to push out there. Even just making a site used to be this creative endeavor, something you figured out by looking around at source code on Geocities' sites. Now we (myself included) just type text into fields, who's html/css/backend has been configured by someone else.

terrywilcox 8y ago

>It is sad though, that young people appear to be less computer literate in terms of creating content (as an overall percentage of previous generations). Previous generations? How many generations back do you imagine widespread computer use to go? Jerry Pournelle was considered cutting edge for using a word processor to write as early as 1977. Adobe Illustrator is from 1987 and Photoshop is from 1990. There haven't been a whole lot of generations in the 41 years since the Apple II was released (about 2 generations, given 20 years per generation). I can tell you that kids from my generation (baby boomers) had almost no computer literacy. Most of us never even touched a computer until adulthood (if then).