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Saturated fat has been vindicated by a majority of modern studies while polyunsaturated has been crucified. Selling us industrial vegetable oils as food was cle

Saturated fat has been vindicated by a majority of modern studies while polyunsaturated has been crucified. Selling us industrial vegetable oils as food was clever. That doesn't mean we should eat a aide of bacon a day, but avoiding whole unprocessed foods containing saturated fats for any reason other than calorie count is flawed. And dietary cholesterol does not correlate with ldl, nor does ldl strongly correlate with death.

cageface 8y ago
Numerous direct intervention studies have shown the clear causal link between dietary saturated fat and blood cholesterol levels. You can obscure this fact by playing games with population meta studies because individual baseline levels vary a lot and are genetically determined. https://nutritionfacts.org/video/the-saturated-fat-studies-set-up-to-fail/ https://nutritionfacts.org/video/the-saturated-fat-studies-s... Anecdotally, I and several people I know have dramatically dropped our blood cholesterol levels by cutting this stuff out of our diets.
- ryanworl 8y ago
  Why are you concerned with blood cholesterol as opposed to e.g. calcium scoring or actual inflammation markers you can measure almost as easily as a lipid panel? One does not spontaneously develop atherosclerosis from elevated blood cholesterol. That just doesn’t make sense from a metabolic perspective.
  - cageface 8y ago
    Elevated LDL is very highly correlated with heart disease. Studies that show that people born with genetically very low cholesterol levels are practically immune to heart disease reinforce this. The mechanism for this is well understood.
    - bad_user 8y ago
      There are many studies confirming no link between high LDL and heart disease. It’s a myth.
      - cageface 8y ago
        Meat industry smoke and mirrors siezed upon by people that want to feel good about eating thier bacon, unfortunately: https://youtu.be/MsFWeC-DeLo https://youtu.be/MsFWeC-DeLo If what you say is true then why are people born with exceptionally low cholesterol levels basically immune to heart disease?
        bad_user 8y ago
        I don’t know from where you get your ideas, but as a matter of fact low LDL is associated with heart disease!
        cageface 8y ago
        You could, you know, actually watch the video I linked.
        bad_user 8y ago
        I don't watch YouTube bullshit. Start by reading this study: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28515068 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28515068
        cageface 8y ago
        He summarizes a bunch of peer review studies in that video instead of just choosing one that supports his point of view. Consumption of sugar and sweeteners is definitely unhealthy but it also peaked in 1999: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/just-how-much-sugar-do-americans-consume-its-complicated/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/just-how-much-sugar-do-american... What's exploded since then is chicken and cheese consumption.
- bad_user 8y ago
  There is no link between high cholesterol and heart disease, I.e. correlation is not causation. If we are speaking of anecdotes, I eat a lot of fat, I’m on a keto diet and my cholesterol dropped to normal after I began keto. And this is actually consistent with the claims of high fat proponents... that it’s insulin that triggers the metabolic syndrome, causing problems with LDL too, and insulin levels and resistance go up because of the sugars and the refined carbs in our diet.
  - cageface 8y ago
    Fats and protein also stimulate insulin release and a steak triggers a bigger insulin response than a bowl of white pasta. Check any chart of insulin responses to confirm this. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insulin_index https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insulin_index Losing weight by any means will lower your cholesterol. But the typical high fat low carb keto diet has the highest mortality rate of any popular diet.
    - bad_user 8y ago
      Protein stimulates insulin, but fat does not ;-) This is why modern low-carbs diets are "high fat, moderate protein". Also, this is NOT a war against all carbohydrates, but against refined carbohydrates, like sugar (corn syrup) or white flour. These refined carbohydrates in our daily diet have raised the insulin resistance of the population to the point that we have a type 2 diabetes and obesity epidemic on our hands and the problem is worse year by year. N.B. our bodies can recover from insulin resistance, there are numerous reports of people with type 2 diabetes getting rid of their disease after a low carb diet. However it can take years for your metabolism to go back to normal and in the meantime things like potatoes (which otherwise are healthy and satiating) are unfortunately bad for you. Of course, you can blame refined carbs for damaging your body, and NOT potatoes. > But the typical high fat low carb keto diet has the highest mortality rate of any popular diet. That's a myth. Show me the evidence. On the other hand, this is my favorite study: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28515068 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28515068
      - 8y ago
hrygolis 8y ago
The saturated/polyunsaturated issue to me points to the complexity of the science, not necessarily to anything nefarious. Consider the response of both to heat. There's a good explanation for why polyunsaturated fats are more healthy when raw, but also good reasons to think that they're less healthy when heated to cooking temperature. But studies, and people, tend to ignore the distinction as if there's no chemical changes in response to 400F heat. Add to this the fact that, for example, "sunflower oil" can vary wildly in it's actual lipid structure because of genetic variation, things get even more complicated. Sure, there's manipulation in nutrition science, but it's not that different from other biomedical sciences. A lot of the confusion is that, but a lot of it is just random sampling variation, and problems people have with interpreting meta-analyses rather than individual studies; but some of it too is the actual inherent complexity of the topic.
- bad_user 8y ago
  I'm sorry, but I'm crying out wolf ... the American Heart Association basically told people to replace saturated fat with sugar. This is a fact. Even now the recommendation is for people to eat refined carbohydrates in their daily diet because they are "fortified" with things like B vitamins or other nutrients which previously came from fatty meat. I mean, OK, in 1950-1960 the field was new, mistakes were made, but to keep this going in 2018 is criminal. They are criminals because people die of type 2 diabetes or of cardiovascular diseases that, surprise, are also caused by hyperinsulinemia (the result of all these refined carbohydrates) and they are side stepping the issue, probably because a lot of big companies (like Coca Cola) would lose a lot of money otherwise. The result is that our children are being fed a diet that is making them obese — even if you protect your children at home, you can't protect them at school. Our children are getting sick, refined sugar should be declared a harmful drug and just like tobacco or alcohol, children should not be allowed to consume it.

cageface 8y ago

Numerous direct intervention studies have shown the clear causal link between dietary saturated fat and blood cholesterol levels. You can obscure this fact by playing games with population meta studies because individual baseline levels vary a lot and are genetically determined. https://nutritionfacts.org/video/the-saturated-fat-studies-set-up-to-fail/ https://nutritionfacts.org/video/the-saturated-fat-studies-s... Anecdotally, I and several people I know have dramatically dropped our blood cholesterol levels by cutting this stuff out of our diets.

ryanworl 8y ago
Why are you concerned with blood cholesterol as opposed to e.g. calcium scoring or actual inflammation markers you can measure almost as easily as a lipid panel? One does not spontaneously develop atherosclerosis from elevated blood cholesterol. That just doesn’t make sense from a metabolic perspective.
- cageface 8y ago
  Elevated LDL is very highly correlated with heart disease. Studies that show that people born with genetically very low cholesterol levels are practically immune to heart disease reinforce this. The mechanism for this is well understood.
  - bad_user 8y ago
    There are many studies confirming no link between high LDL and heart disease. It’s a myth.
    - cageface 8y ago
      Meat industry smoke and mirrors siezed upon by people that want to feel good about eating thier bacon, unfortunately: https://youtu.be/MsFWeC-DeLo https://youtu.be/MsFWeC-DeLo If what you say is true then why are people born with exceptionally low cholesterol levels basically immune to heart disease?
      - bad_user 8y ago
        I don’t know from where you get your ideas, but as a matter of fact low LDL is associated with heart disease!
        cageface 8y ago
        You could, you know, actually watch the video I linked.
        bad_user 8y ago
        I don't watch YouTube bullshit. Start by reading this study: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28515068 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28515068
        cageface 8y ago
        He summarizes a bunch of peer review studies in that video instead of just choosing one that supports his point of view. Consumption of sugar and sweeteners is definitely unhealthy but it also peaked in 1999: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/just-how-much-sugar-do-americans-consume-its-complicated/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/just-how-much-sugar-do-american... What's exploded since then is chicken and cheese consumption.
bad_user 8y ago
There is no link between high cholesterol and heart disease, I.e. correlation is not causation. If we are speaking of anecdotes, I eat a lot of fat, I’m on a keto diet and my cholesterol dropped to normal after I began keto. And this is actually consistent with the claims of high fat proponents... that it’s insulin that triggers the metabolic syndrome, causing problems with LDL too, and insulin levels and resistance go up because of the sugars and the refined carbs in our diet.
- cageface 8y ago
  Fats and protein also stimulate insulin release and a steak triggers a bigger insulin response than a bowl of white pasta. Check any chart of insulin responses to confirm this. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insulin_index https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insulin_index Losing weight by any means will lower your cholesterol. But the typical high fat low carb keto diet has the highest mortality rate of any popular diet.
  - bad_user 8y ago
    Protein stimulates insulin, but fat does not ;-) This is why modern low-carbs diets are "high fat, moderate protein". Also, this is NOT a war against all carbohydrates, but against refined carbohydrates, like sugar (corn syrup) or white flour. These refined carbohydrates in our daily diet have raised the insulin resistance of the population to the point that we have a type 2 diabetes and obesity epidemic on our hands and the problem is worse year by year. N.B. our bodies can recover from insulin resistance, there are numerous reports of people with type 2 diabetes getting rid of their disease after a low carb diet. However it can take years for your metabolism to go back to normal and in the meantime things like potatoes (which otherwise are healthy and satiating) are unfortunately bad for you. Of course, you can blame refined carbs for damaging your body, and NOT potatoes. > But the typical high fat low carb keto diet has the highest mortality rate of any popular diet. That's a myth. Show me the evidence. On the other hand, this is my favorite study: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28515068 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28515068
    - 8y ago

hrygolis 8y ago

The saturated/polyunsaturated issue to me points to the complexity of the science, not necessarily to anything nefarious. Consider the response of both to heat. There's a good explanation for why polyunsaturated fats are more healthy when raw, but also good reasons to think that they're less healthy when heated to cooking temperature. But studies, and people, tend to ignore the distinction as if there's no chemical changes in response to 400F heat. Add to this the fact that, for example, "sunflower oil" can vary wildly in it's actual lipid structure because of genetic variation, things get even more complicated. Sure, there's manipulation in nutrition science, but it's not that different from other biomedical sciences. A lot of the confusion is that, but a lot of it is just random sampling variation, and problems people have with interpreting meta-analyses rather than individual studies; but some of it too is the actual inherent complexity of the topic.

bad_user 8y ago
I'm sorry, but I'm crying out wolf ... the American Heart Association basically told people to replace saturated fat with sugar. This is a fact. Even now the recommendation is for people to eat refined carbohydrates in their daily diet because they are "fortified" with things like B vitamins or other nutrients which previously came from fatty meat. I mean, OK, in 1950-1960 the field was new, mistakes were made, but to keep this going in 2018 is criminal. They are criminals because people die of type 2 diabetes or of cardiovascular diseases that, surprise, are also caused by hyperinsulinemia (the result of all these refined carbohydrates) and they are side stepping the issue, probably because a lot of big companies (like Coca Cola) would lose a lot of money otherwise. The result is that our children are being fed a diet that is making them obese — even if you protect your children at home, you can't protect them at school. Our children are getting sick, refined sugar should be declared a harmful drug and just like tobacco or alcohol, children should not be allowed to consume it.