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What does “outsider artist” even mean? (2012)
- techbio 8y agoI was invited to exhibit in an outsider art gallery many years ago and declined, because I would not settle for less than full credibility. The semi-inclusion by "relegating these creators to special art ghetto" is just a sort of aquarium to interact with selected, but not accepted artists, to be ogled in their foreignness and endowed with platitudes of "how creative they are". Outsider artists should all be given a stipend for materials on the completion of their 100th piece, at which point it just comes back to the basic income discussion. Tax the robots.
- vvpan 8y agoCould you elaborate on the "Tax the robots." bit? I am welcoming to the idea and curious what you mean in this case.
- techbio 8y agoI'm no tax expert, and it's certainly counter to current political powers at nearly every level of government, but if one looks at inputs into a robot's operating costs as income, and taxes the operator as an employer obligated to pay their share of income and FICA taxes, we could likely see higher long-term employment and training of workers as well as continued solvency for social safety net programs. Edit: Of course, at some uncalculated cost to high-growth innovation investment opportunities. Because greater-good is a tricky balance.
- s-shellfish 8y agoWhat do robots have to do with outsider artists?
- techbio 8y agoFinding money to support the disenfranchised. Edit: My original answer was unclear and too brief for someone. A clearer answer is that outsider artists, as generally identified by profound social marginalization, typically resulting from mental illnesses, are statistically almost never able to support themselves on art-making. Programs exist for the mentally ill, yet it would be a hard case to make that these are sufficient for creating quality of life such that everyone suffering in that category, and who would rather be making art as a primary occupation, can support themselves and live independently (provided that is a goal) on art making income. But like many causes, money for this cause is harder to come by than it could be in the wealthiest nation in the world. Extracting money, not currently available, from the least creative of workers to support creative work and fulfilling lives for "outsider artists" and all others on the margins of the modern economy seems to me a kind of fair play.
- s-shellfish 8y agoThis is a bad thing for art?
- techbio 8y agoThis is not achieved by the rare "outsider art" sale. I'm not sure why you have a problem with my original post, or if you even read it.
- s-shellfish 8y agoI can't understand most of it, to be honest. My perspective is art can sometimes take centuries to make sense from the creator to the person that it's right for, so it doesn't make sense to expect a functioning, mechanized economy to provide for it. That's the point of art. To tell an idea to someone who needs it. If you tax it and expect it to work like everything else does, it can't do that.
- ModernMech 8y ago
- extralego 8y agoAnswer: class Pierre Bourdieu does as decent job as any in breaking down the social topology of class, but his legacy is fraught with his failure to sufficiently account for many economic phenomena that are constantly becoming more clear. It’s hard to elaborat on these in short. The case study of outsider art is a useful case study both in defense of and in objection to Bourdieu’s comprehensions of social class. The insistence on a distinction so classist as “outsider art” is just another shameful depravity in the name of maintaining a VIP zone for the bourgeois in a world of mass media. Let’s remember “the art world” didn’t exist until the 90s.
- yontherubicon 8y agoConsidering the ugliness espoused by "The Art World," I can't imagine that any true artist would want to be anything other than an "Outsider Artist."
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- duxup 8y agoYeah but that leaves a prime spotlight available in non outsider art....
- s-shellfish 8y agoArt theory and psychology also frequently connect outsider art to mental illness, which doesn't really help the associated stigma and consequent classism. Rather, it tends to more tightly bind the two together, by creating an implicit relation, which persists in the collective cultural consciousness. This clearly will affect an artist's perception of themselves depending on what level of success they obtain for themselves. Source: a self professed, so called 'tortured artist'. Unsuccessful in the arts by choice, but still affected by the stigma as a computer scientist. Change culture: solve problems -> make more of them.
- extralego 8y ago
- jonnydubowsky 8y agoDoes anyone know what software she uses to make these videos? The one mapping her talking and the overall 3d rendering software?
- detaro 8y agoHer channel intro video has some named in the description: > my favourite software is Carrara by DAZ 3D. I also use Poser7 from Smithmicro/content paradise and iClone from Reallusion
- jonnydubowsky 8y agothanks!
- Fricken 8y agoHa, I've been subscribed to Wendy Vainity's YouTube channel for years. I had no idea anybody else gave a fuck, I just thought it was genuinely weird stuff. I'm not even sure how I came across it.
- braythwayt 8y agoAlways a fun watch: “Mom and Pop Art,” in which Homer Simpson bcomes an outsider artist. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mom_and_Pop_Art https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mom_and_Pop_Art
- tomlock 8y agoGiven the beat-up that postmodernism has been given in recent years, its kind of interesting to see that discussions that rest on some key postmodern ideas continue to be relevant. I think the key takeaway, if any from postmodernism, is that categorisations are never as objective as we'd like. Language is made up, and the points don't matter. What even is art?
- bigbluedots 8y agoArt is whatever people say it is.
- plaguuuuuu 8y agoThe art world really bothers me. Every artist I know (successful or otherwise) admits that success at art is essentially a popularity contest. Art has been transformed from something that attempts to convey meaning and emotion, despite subjectivity and reliance on shared language specific to one's own culture, to a fetishization of an artwork's background narrative. ie the process (this particular painting of a square, that looks like every other uniform square painting, was done by doing xyz therefore it's different) and background story of the artist or artwork (this one was painted by a blind nun from some oppressed country). The artwork itself is meaningless save for the narrative surrounding it. It's impossible to understand or experience anything when looking at the artwork, but the background text next to it elucidates the narrative. That's why "outsider art" is hilarious to me. In many cases it's totally accidental art, or a pisstake: see, comedy shows bringing random objects, like dustbins or fire hydrants, into galleries.. cue dozens of thoughtful onlookers - or even unrepentant shit. But the fetishization of narrative elevates it to mainstream acceptance (despite the artist not being in the cool kids' club). And conversely, in other cases, outsiders are the only ones actually making art in the first place, because everyone else on the inside is too busy trying to score it big by adhering to trends.
- nerdponx 8y agoI think the only difference between "then" and "now" is that "back then" you had to have some kind of mechanical, technical skill, like sculpting or painting. Now (1950s-present), anyone can do anything and call it "art". Without any kind of technical merit to separate "great", "good", "mediocre", and "bad", what do you have left but self-reinforcing popularity? Consider outsider music. It's outsider because it weird and usually lacks something in execution, e.g. recording quality.
- nafey 8y agoI have heard it being explained as invention of photography necessitated a different approach to art. As realism was no longer only possible through an artist they had to go in a different direction. Impressionism, which can perhaps be regarded as the first major artistic movement that tried to move away from realism, also began around the invention of camera.
- dood 8y agoThe term refers to people who don't try to get into the art world in-group but still create interesting things, so "outsider" is an accurate and literal description of their status. However the in-group is uncomfortable with consciously engaging with this dynamic and the dysfunction it points to, so engages in a little double-think and invents more palatable justifications for using the term "outsider". The idea of ignoring in-group games of meaning and status, instead creating works entirely from playful self-expression, is so alien it is best left outside.