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> voter IDs could be handled at the local level Handling this at the local level introdces opportunities for limiting supply in areas where it is beneficial to

by maym86 8y ago

> voter IDs could be handled at the local level Handling this at the local level introdces opportunities for limiting supply in areas where it is beneficial to the local party in charge to suppress the vote. > Ideally, registration and ID application/issuance (for the next election) would be mandated for every polling place. Why? What is the benefit? Voter fraud of this kind in minimal so what justifies the added cost? > It could have the added benefit of being an additional/secondary piece of identification ... something that can be out of reach of someone low on income and/or time, even once they've obtained the state ID. Why should people need a secondary ID? The issue is that low income people don't always have ID and you're suggesting the could need two forms of ID to vote. What makes this easier to obtain for low income people than other forms of ID?

mmt 8y ago
> Handling this at the local level introdces opportunities for limiting supply in areas where it is beneficial to the local party in charge to suppress the vote. That may be true but has nothing to do with my original point, which I perhaps didn't make clear enough originally, is that the lack of discussion around ease and cost of IDs tends to result in the tacit assumption that the only suitable IDs would be existing, state-issued ones, whereas easier, cheaper options could be mandated. > Why? What is the benefit? Voter fraud of this kind in minimal so what justifies the added cost? I'm making no assertion as to the underlying benefit of requiring IDs in the first place, but lighter weight documentation requirements would be easier than a state ID and presumably cheaper. Co-location with polling places would make it at least approximately as easy/available as the voting itself (far more so than a state DMV). > you're suggesting the could need two forms of ID to vote I'm doing no such thing, and it's an uncharitable reading of my comment to accuse me of it, considering I pointed out an added benefit. Opening a first bank account would be easier with two forms of photo ID.
- maym86 8y ago
  > That may be true but has nothing to do with my original point, which I perhaps didn't make clear enough originally, is that the lack of discussion around ease and cost of IDs tends to result in the tacit assumption that the only suitable IDs would be existing, state-issued ones, whereas easier, cheaper options could be mandated. This wasn't clear thanks for clarifying. But I have little faith that a new form of ID would be any easier to obtain than current options. Ideally we'd just make the current state IDs easier to obtain but even then they still shouldn't be necessary for voting if we truely want to count the opinion of as many citizens as possible.
  - mmt 8y ago
    > I have little faith that a new form of ID would be any easier to obtain than current options. It's hard to see how having yet another option could make getting any ID overall more difficult, but, of course, merely easier isn't adequate. It has to be so easy and frictionless (in addition to being free) as to avoid voter suppression. As such, it would have to be at least as easy as current voter registration (which itself is not necessarily easy enough to begin with). I have more faith that, if this is possible, it would be doable by augmenting existing election bureacracies to include photo ID issuance, than retrofitting existing DMV bureacracies (and adding locations?!). (I also think that even just attempting a DMV retrofit is likely to end up being a boondoggle/moneypit of breathtaking proportions, at least for the larger states [1]) [1] Witness http://articles.latimes.com/2013/feb/14/local/la-me-dmv-project-20130215 http://articles.latimes.com/2013/feb/14/local/la-me-dmv-proj...

by maym86 8y ago

mmt 8y ago

> Handling this at the local level introdces opportunities for limiting supply in areas where it is beneficial to the local party in charge to suppress the vote. That may be true but has nothing to do with my original point, which I perhaps didn't make clear enough originally, is that the lack of discussion around ease and cost of IDs tends to result in the tacit assumption that the only suitable IDs would be existing, state-issued ones, whereas easier, cheaper options could be mandated. > Why? What is the benefit? Voter fraud of this kind in minimal so what justifies the added cost? I'm making no assertion as to the underlying benefit of requiring IDs in the first place, but lighter weight documentation requirements would be easier than a state ID and presumably cheaper. Co-location with polling places would make it at least approximately as easy/available as the voting itself (far more so than a state DMV). > you're suggesting the could need two forms of ID to vote I'm doing no such thing, and it's an uncharitable reading of my comment to accuse me of it, considering I pointed out an added benefit. Opening a first bank account would be easier with two forms of photo ID.

maym86 8y ago
> That may be true but has nothing to do with my original point, which I perhaps didn't make clear enough originally, is that the lack of discussion around ease and cost of IDs tends to result in the tacit assumption that the only suitable IDs would be existing, state-issued ones, whereas easier, cheaper options could be mandated. This wasn't clear thanks for clarifying. But I have little faith that a new form of ID would be any easier to obtain than current options. Ideally we'd just make the current state IDs easier to obtain but even then they still shouldn't be necessary for voting if we truely want to count the opinion of as many citizens as possible.
- mmt 8y ago
  > I have little faith that a new form of ID would be any easier to obtain than current options. It's hard to see how having yet another option could make getting any ID overall more difficult, but, of course, merely easier isn't adequate. It has to be so easy and frictionless (in addition to being free) as to avoid voter suppression. As such, it would have to be at least as easy as current voter registration (which itself is not necessarily easy enough to begin with). I have more faith that, if this is possible, it would be doable by augmenting existing election bureacracies to include photo ID issuance, than retrofitting existing DMV bureacracies (and adding locations?!). (I also think that even just attempting a DMV retrofit is likely to end up being a boondoggle/moneypit of breathtaking proportions, at least for the larger states [1]) [1] Witness http://articles.latimes.com/2013/feb/14/local/la-me-dmv-project-20130215 http://articles.latimes.com/2013/feb/14/local/la-me-dmv-proj...