4 ms·

And what if these actions end up being a net positive for Germany, and Europe by proxy? There will be a lot of German-Syrians, some of whom will return to Syria

And what if these actions end up being a net positive for Germany, and Europe by proxy? There will be a lot of German-Syrians, some of whom will return to Syria after things settle down. And they will speak to the disgruntled youth who have lost family there, and will speak positively about their adopted second home country. You want to prevent future terrorist attacks? That's how you do it. Not by bombing them more, but by being a friend in need. > I do not think that people holding themselves in shame over something they had no direct role in Remembering what your society is capable of, even if not directly culpable any more, is not a weakness; it's a strength. Branding that as "emotional decisions" is disingenuous. How a society treats its prisoners and pets is also an "emotional decision", as well as a good indication of how civilised a society is. > I think we can agree that the sharp growth in European nationalism is strongly connected to this situation. I don't think we agree there. > Brexit was certainly strongly connected to this situation. Brexit is strongly connected to the likes of Farage, their insulated partisan press, and UK exceptionalism. > Short term heartlessness or long term negative outcomes? Or a false dichotomy altogether? What exactly are the long term negative outcomes here? > the longterm echoes of this sort of problem in the US. The U.S. has its own share of problems. IMO it's of little use to try and draw comparisons between back-then problems of subjugation and the modern problem of influx of war refugees in Europe.

TangoTrotFox 8y ago
As one comment here this is certainly a discussion I'd enjoy continuing, but I find this response pattern of quote - one-liners, quote - one-liner, ... to be incredibly low effort and lacking in substance. If you can speak in any holistic fashion to try to make a coherent point then we can go that route. In my opinion most of your one liners here are 'provably' (at least so much as social views can be proven) false, yet the effort required there to refute each one is probably not worth it. However, at the same time if you think any of these one liners would sufficiently encompass your worldview that compelling evidence to the contrary would change your opinion on matters then please do tell me which one it is.
- craigsmansion 8y ago
  > I find this response pattern of quote [..] low effort and lacking in substance. It's a format of online discourse that has been used on mailing lists and usenet groups for decades now. It keeps things on point and makes sure we're addressing the same subjects. > if you think any of these one liners "How a society treats its prisoners and pets is also an "emotional decision", as well as a good indication of how civilised a society is." Your arguments are based on "appeal to rationality," which sounds enticing, but is a form of "appeal to nature" when there is no evidence that "things will blow up in your face in the long run."

TangoTrotFox 8y ago

As one comment here this is certainly a discussion I'd enjoy continuing, but I find this response pattern of quote - one-liners, quote - one-liner, ... to be incredibly low effort and lacking in substance. If you can speak in any holistic fashion to try to make a coherent point then we can go that route. In my opinion most of your one liners here are 'provably' (at least so much as social views can be proven) false, yet the effort required there to refute each one is probably not worth it. However, at the same time if you think any of these one liners would sufficiently encompass your worldview that compelling evidence to the contrary would change your opinion on matters then please do tell me which one it is.

craigsmansion 8y ago
> I find this response pattern of quote [..] low effort and lacking in substance. It's a format of online discourse that has been used on mailing lists and usenet groups for decades now. It keeps things on point and makes sure we're addressing the same subjects. > if you think any of these one liners "How a society treats its prisoners and pets is also an "emotional decision", as well as a good indication of how civilised a society is." Your arguments are based on "appeal to rationality," which sounds enticing, but is a form of "appeal to nature" when there is no evidence that "things will blow up in your face in the long run."