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> EDIT: to answer some of the accusations below, you guys know nothing about me, my background, or my ancestors, yet most of you are quick to jump to conclusion

> EDIT: to answer some of the accusations below, you guys know nothing about me, my background, or my ancestors, yet most of you are quick to jump to conclusions. It's both funny and sad. It seems like in the US, knowing (or thinking you know) the "race" of the person you are talking with is fundamental, and everything always ends up being relative to that. When you don't state your own racial background (or what you said didn't convince them) people will simply guess something on their own. Just a few days ago, a black (half black? but I think it's the same, in the US) humorist used the exact same words as the far right always does when describing the French soccer team, but somehow it was different because of his skin colour (that was actually his line of defense). Them explicitly saying they are French, not African was not something he could accept, because, you know, they're black. When I was in the US or Canada, people were always asking my wife "where she came from" for no special reason, and very few accepted "Canada" as an answer. I was the actual immigrant, but since I'm white I wasn't subject to that. For her, after having mostly lived in France where nobody would ever assume you aren't just French unless you explicitely tell them (or can't speak French at all) it was a horrible experience. It's just something I have observed. Everyone seems to be obsessed with the other persons' origins, sometimes with good intentions (who actually cares about being praised for their parents' birthplace, though?) but it never stops and it's very obvious to anyone who isn't used to North America. Not sure if it's really on topic, sorry if I got carried away a bit.

TheSpiceIsLife 8y ago
People, mostly travellers but people in general, often ask where I'm from even though it's pretty obvious I was born in Australia. I think people just generally like to talk about ancestry, and the people in the room who probably have the most different ancestry probably get the most attention. Every family in Australia has a story about how they, their parents, or grand parents, or great great grand parents, got here. It's all still quite fresh.
loso 8y ago
He was acknowledging that their origins were African. Which they were. The humorist that you are talking about is Trevor Noah and he is from South Africa. He is an immigrant. So it's not really a US thing. Its a being subjected to a double standard thing. In the US when you're a minority and you are doing something positive you are considered without doubt an American. But when its something negative or objectionable to some people race comes in to play really quickly. When I was growing up it was common for the news to report the race of a subject when it was a black person doing the crime. But you knew the person was white when race was not mentioned at all. In the past few years that has gotten better but it was definitely a thing in the not too distant past. When a large segment of the population thinks its okay for police to profile based on race its hard for people subjected to it to not think about race in all avenues of life. Because its something that you deal with on a regular basis.
- tor0viking 8y ago
  The issue is that by people from minority racial groups becoming hyper sensitive to race they end up perpetuating racial division. Trevor Noah's comments are an example. His view of the world is probably significantly influenced by race due to real or perceived discrimination he has experienced, but by his commentaries focusing on race he pushes a worldview that directs people's attention to the fault lines of race rather than the things which unite us in spite of racial differences.
  - loso 8y ago
    Acknowledging race is not being hypersensitive about race. The problem is in what you said "pushes a worldview that directs people's attention to the fault lines of race rather than the things which unite us in spite of racial differences". You have the luxury to not think about it because it doesn't affect you directly. When you're a minority its something that you have to think about either consciously or subconsciously. Because you run into it frequently. Depending on where you live and who you deal with it can be something you deal with on a daily basis or something you deal with every now and then. But it will be something you deal with.
    - tor0viking 8y ago
      And it doesn't have to be that way. The racialization of everything in our political and social discourse does not help. The political Left has become hypersensitive to race. In America we have constructed a society where racial minorities can be more successful and more integrated into the broader society than in any other country on Earth. Racial divisions of the past are melting away. And yet the Identity Politics of the Far Left have come to dominate the worldview of many in a way that pushes them away from MLK's vision of a world in which people don't care about race, to one in which all they seem to care about is race. We are well on our way to achieving MLK's dream, but it is in spite of Identity Politics.
- weberc2 8y ago
  It’s not a minority thing; whites deal with the same (e.g., “[whites][0] [have][1] [a mass][2] [shooting problem][3]”). It’s just different groups that apply the double standard. [0]: https://www.newsweek.com/white-men-have-committed-more-mass-shootings-any-other-group-675602 https://www.newsweek.com/white-men-have-committed-more-mass-... [1]: https://www.salon.com/2017/10/02/americas-white-man-problem-after-las-vegas-a-familiar-script-unfolds/ https://www.salon.com/2017/10/02/americas-white-man-problem-... [2]: https://m.dailykos.com/stories/2018/3/9/1747592/-How-America-s-white-male-rage-problem-fuels-mass-shootings-and-emboldens-the-violent-alt-right https://m.dailykos.com/stories/2018/3/9/1747592/-How-America... [3]: https://psmag.com/social-justice/white-men-aggrievement-and-mass-shootings https://psmag.com/social-justice/white-men-aggrievement-and-...

TheSpiceIsLife 8y ago

People, mostly travellers but people in general, often ask where I'm from even though it's pretty obvious I was born in Australia. I think people just generally like to talk about ancestry, and the people in the room who probably have the most different ancestry probably get the most attention. Every family in Australia has a story about how they, their parents, or grand parents, or great great grand parents, got here. It's all still quite fresh.

loso 8y ago

He was acknowledging that their origins were African. Which they were. The humorist that you are talking about is Trevor Noah and he is from South Africa. He is an immigrant. So it's not really a US thing. Its a being subjected to a double standard thing. In the US when you're a minority and you are doing something positive you are considered without doubt an American. But when its something negative or objectionable to some people race comes in to play really quickly. When I was growing up it was common for the news to report the race of a subject when it was a black person doing the crime. But you knew the person was white when race was not mentioned at all. In the past few years that has gotten better but it was definitely a thing in the not too distant past. When a large segment of the population thinks its okay for police to profile based on race its hard for people subjected to it to not think about race in all avenues of life. Because its something that you deal with on a regular basis.

tor0viking 8y ago
The issue is that by people from minority racial groups becoming hyper sensitive to race they end up perpetuating racial division. Trevor Noah's comments are an example. His view of the world is probably significantly influenced by race due to real or perceived discrimination he has experienced, but by his commentaries focusing on race he pushes a worldview that directs people's attention to the fault lines of race rather than the things which unite us in spite of racial differences.
- loso 8y ago
  Acknowledging race is not being hypersensitive about race. The problem is in what you said "pushes a worldview that directs people's attention to the fault lines of race rather than the things which unite us in spite of racial differences". You have the luxury to not think about it because it doesn't affect you directly. When you're a minority its something that you have to think about either consciously or subconsciously. Because you run into it frequently. Depending on where you live and who you deal with it can be something you deal with on a daily basis or something you deal with every now and then. But it will be something you deal with.
  - tor0viking 8y ago
    And it doesn't have to be that way. The racialization of everything in our political and social discourse does not help. The political Left has become hypersensitive to race. In America we have constructed a society where racial minorities can be more successful and more integrated into the broader society than in any other country on Earth. Racial divisions of the past are melting away. And yet the Identity Politics of the Far Left have come to dominate the worldview of many in a way that pushes them away from MLK's vision of a world in which people don't care about race, to one in which all they seem to care about is race. We are well on our way to achieving MLK's dream, but it is in spite of Identity Politics.
weberc2 8y ago
It’s not a minority thing; whites deal with the same (e.g., “[whites][0] [have][1] [a mass][2] [shooting problem][3]”). It’s just different groups that apply the double standard. [0]: https://www.newsweek.com/white-men-have-committed-more-mass-shootings-any-other-group-675602 https://www.newsweek.com/white-men-have-committed-more-mass-... [1]: https://www.salon.com/2017/10/02/americas-white-man-problem-after-las-vegas-a-familiar-script-unfolds/ https://www.salon.com/2017/10/02/americas-white-man-problem-... [2]: https://m.dailykos.com/stories/2018/3/9/1747592/-How-America-s-white-male-rage-problem-fuels-mass-shootings-and-emboldens-the-violent-alt-right https://m.dailykos.com/stories/2018/3/9/1747592/-How-America... [3]: https://psmag.com/social-justice/white-men-aggrievement-and-mass-shootings https://psmag.com/social-justice/white-men-aggrievement-and-...