5 ms·

It's entirely possible that LSD uncovered or accentuated an underlying flaw in your friend's psyche...

cageface 8y ago
It probably did but that flaw wasn't obvious at all beforehand. He was a bit eccentric but also a really bright and funny guy with a lot of friends and a very dedicated student.
psychedictic 8y ago
This is the common response from proponents of LSD. To them, it's never the LSD, and instead the adverse reaction must be because the person had a mind that was predisposed to some sort of mental illness. Even if it's true that someone has some kind of latent / dormant condition that is ultimately triggered by the LSD, then the act of taking the LSD itself was the catalyst, and the person would have been far better off not ever having taken the drug. The drug is illegal, and the argument growing up was that the "government was suppressing free thought" or whatever nonsense was being pushed, but the reality is that such a drug is dangerous and absolutely does hurt people. Whether connected to a predisposition of mental illness or not, it's not a hard connection and people should be extra cautious when considering whether to engage in such behavior.
- sev 8y ago
  Care should be taken, like with any substance we ingest. However, I disagree with your premise. We do not know if LSD was in fact the catalyst. We don’t know if the people who got ruined after taking a single tab of LSD actually took LSD or some research chemical (which are quite commonly sold off as LSD).
  - erikpukinskis 8y ago
    Yeah, 2CI is for example very dangerous psychologically, and I’m sure it gets sold as LSD when an unscrupulous dealer has excess inventory.
  - yeahforsureman 8y ago
    Some research psychedelics are more dangerous physically, and certainly less researched, but in terms of psychological effects, all psychedelics are generally pretty similar. It's silly to assume LSD is somehow significantly less likely to cause psychological trouble.
- Pica_soO 8y ago
  I agree, it only should be available to those, who are already in danger by pre-existing conditions like chronic depression or other similar serious mental conditions.
- telchar 8y ago
  What's your evidence that those people are worse off having taken the psychedelics? You can't know the counterfactual isn't that those people who respond poorly to the drug would have had a similar mental break without it. Until the drug is studied rigorously all we have to go on are conflicting anecdotes. That said in the face of a lack of reliable information caution is warranted.
  - tomerv 8y ago
    Even if that person would not have taken LSD and would have had a psychotic episode 5 years later due to the underlying issue, that's still 5 years of good health lost because of LSD.
    - erikpukinskis 8y ago
      Or it’s 5 years less of post-treatment life. We can make random guesses all day about what’s a good outcome but how about we leave it to medical researchers to actually figure out what’s safe and beneficial?
      - cgag 8y ago
        It seems pretty delusional to just say these people would have spontaneously lost their minds even if they didn't do extremely powerful mind altering drugs.
        TomMarius 8y ago
        It seems pretty delusional to make conclusions when you don't even know if they really took LSD or something sold as LSD, but actually dangerous, and are missing basically all other important data other than "they took something and then became crazy", while the then in the sentence means "after that", as in time, not "because of that".
        erikpukinskis 8y ago
        It’s literally guaranteed that some of them would have.
- windows_tips 8y ago
  >The drug is illegal, Only in certain contexts (ie. some instances of interstate commerce).
- prolikewh0a 8y ago
  >The drug is illegal >but the reality is that such a drug is dangerous and absolutely does hurt people. With this reasoning, skydiving, base jumping, and even the act of simply driving a car should should also be illegal. We let people do far more dangerous things, yet keep them legal. There is another reason LSD & most psychedelics are illegal. What that is, I don't know.
travmatt 8y ago
That’s the point - there are other, slower, safer means to effect positive change on your mind that don’t run the risk of fucking up your brain from some random effect you had no way of predicting. The point is that it’s effects are powerful, which is why there is finally a revival into what exactly is happening.
arkades 8y ago
I don’t understand this common response at all. If I prescribe penicillin to a patient with a pcn allergy, the fact that I “uncovered an underlying flaw” is irrelevant. Pcn is dangerous to them and should not be prescribed to them. This is true, in one sense or another, of the majority of adverse effects people have from medications given in therapeutic ranges. It’s basically what having an adverse effect -means-. It doesn’t mean that medication shouldn’t be given when appropriate, but it’s not a rationale for deflecting attention from the risks of the medication.
- ChristianBundy 8y ago
  The difference is that penicillin allergies can only be triggered by penicillin (or maybe penicillin-adjacent analogues). Mental illnesses and psychedelics don't work the same way. Psychedelics bring these issues to the forefront, but they don't necessarily cause mental health issues, as the same issues could happen without LSD. I understand what you're trying to express with your example of penicillin, but it's not the same thing. In my opinion, it would be more accurate to compare psychedelic drugs to activities like meditation and fasting, which also have a risk of anxiety, discomfort, and bringing out dormant mental health issues in some people.
  - ada1981 8y ago
    A good mindset of psychedelic use is that you’d like things to be brought to the surface so they can be worked with and integrated. This is precisely what makes them such useful tools for things like PTSD and why it can be a bummer if someone does Molly at a rave and winds up with a memory of being molested and her friends are too busy doing K to talk with her. In a safe and supportive setting, this is exactly what can help people heal. It’s when things get uncovered but not fully released and processed they can occupy ones life. A good psychedelic therapist or sitter should be able to help someone integrat a current or former bad trip.
  - yosito 8y ago
    Psychedelics are not just spiritual/mental. They can literally alter your brain chemistry and, in rare cases, cause severe adverse effects. There need to be more studies done on the brain chemistry so we know how to predict and prevent those adverse effects.
lightcatcher 8y ago
This isn't a useful distinction unless you can reliably identify the flaw before the negative impact of LSD. Without a detection mechanism, this is as actionable as "LSD does bad things to some people"

It probably did but that flaw wasn't obvious at all beforehand. He was a bit eccentric but also a really bright and funny guy with a lot of friends and a very dedicated student.

psychedictic 8y ago

This is the common response from proponents of LSD. To them, it's never the LSD, and instead the adverse reaction must be because the person had a mind that was predisposed to some sort of mental illness. Even if it's true that someone has some kind of latent / dormant condition that is ultimately triggered by the LSD, then the act of taking the LSD itself was the catalyst, and the person would have been far better off not ever having taken the drug. The drug is illegal, and the argument growing up was that the "government was suppressing free thought" or whatever nonsense was being pushed, but the reality is that such a drug is dangerous and absolutely does hurt people. Whether connected to a predisposition of mental illness or not, it's not a hard connection and people should be extra cautious when considering whether to engage in such behavior.

sev 8y ago
Care should be taken, like with any substance we ingest. However, I disagree with your premise. We do not know if LSD was in fact the catalyst. We don’t know if the people who got ruined after taking a single tab of LSD actually took LSD or some research chemical (which are quite commonly sold off as LSD).
- erikpukinskis 8y ago
  Yeah, 2CI is for example very dangerous psychologically, and I’m sure it gets sold as LSD when an unscrupulous dealer has excess inventory.
- yeahforsureman 8y ago
  Some research psychedelics are more dangerous physically, and certainly less researched, but in terms of psychological effects, all psychedelics are generally pretty similar. It's silly to assume LSD is somehow significantly less likely to cause psychological trouble.
Pica_soO 8y ago
I agree, it only should be available to those, who are already in danger by pre-existing conditions like chronic depression or other similar serious mental conditions.
telchar 8y ago
What's your evidence that those people are worse off having taken the psychedelics? You can't know the counterfactual isn't that those people who respond poorly to the drug would have had a similar mental break without it. Until the drug is studied rigorously all we have to go on are conflicting anecdotes. That said in the face of a lack of reliable information caution is warranted.
- tomerv 8y ago
  Even if that person would not have taken LSD and would have had a psychotic episode 5 years later due to the underlying issue, that's still 5 years of good health lost because of LSD.
  - erikpukinskis 8y ago
    Or it’s 5 years less of post-treatment life. We can make random guesses all day about what’s a good outcome but how about we leave it to medical researchers to actually figure out what’s safe and beneficial?
    - cgag 8y ago
      It seems pretty delusional to just say these people would have spontaneously lost their minds even if they didn't do extremely powerful mind altering drugs.
      - TomMarius 8y ago
        It seems pretty delusional to make conclusions when you don't even know if they really took LSD or something sold as LSD, but actually dangerous, and are missing basically all other important data other than "they took something and then became crazy", while the then in the sentence means "after that", as in time, not "because of that".
      - erikpukinskis 8y ago
        It’s literally guaranteed that some of them would have.
windows_tips 8y ago
>The drug is illegal, Only in certain contexts (ie. some instances of interstate commerce).
prolikewh0a 8y ago
>The drug is illegal >but the reality is that such a drug is dangerous and absolutely does hurt people. With this reasoning, skydiving, base jumping, and even the act of simply driving a car should should also be illegal. We let people do far more dangerous things, yet keep them legal. There is another reason LSD & most psychedelics are illegal. What that is, I don't know.

travmatt 8y ago

That’s the point - there are other, slower, safer means to effect positive change on your mind that don’t run the risk of fucking up your brain from some random effect you had no way of predicting. The point is that it’s effects are powerful, which is why there is finally a revival into what exactly is happening.

arkades 8y ago

I don’t understand this common response at all. If I prescribe penicillin to a patient with a pcn allergy, the fact that I “uncovered an underlying flaw” is irrelevant. Pcn is dangerous to them and should not be prescribed to them. This is true, in one sense or another, of the majority of adverse effects people have from medications given in therapeutic ranges. It’s basically what having an adverse effect -means-. It doesn’t mean that medication shouldn’t be given when appropriate, but it’s not a rationale for deflecting attention from the risks of the medication.

ChristianBundy 8y ago
The difference is that penicillin allergies can only be triggered by penicillin (or maybe penicillin-adjacent analogues). Mental illnesses and psychedelics don't work the same way. Psychedelics bring these issues to the forefront, but they don't necessarily cause mental health issues, as the same issues could happen without LSD. I understand what you're trying to express with your example of penicillin, but it's not the same thing. In my opinion, it would be more accurate to compare psychedelic drugs to activities like meditation and fasting, which also have a risk of anxiety, discomfort, and bringing out dormant mental health issues in some people.
- ada1981 8y ago
  A good mindset of psychedelic use is that you’d like things to be brought to the surface so they can be worked with and integrated. This is precisely what makes them such useful tools for things like PTSD and why it can be a bummer if someone does Molly at a rave and winds up with a memory of being molested and her friends are too busy doing K to talk with her. In a safe and supportive setting, this is exactly what can help people heal. It’s when things get uncovered but not fully released and processed they can occupy ones life. A good psychedelic therapist or sitter should be able to help someone integrat a current or former bad trip.
- yosito 8y ago
  Psychedelics are not just spiritual/mental. They can literally alter your brain chemistry and, in rare cases, cause severe adverse effects. There need to be more studies done on the brain chemistry so we know how to predict and prevent those adverse effects.

lightcatcher 8y ago

This isn't a useful distinction unless you can reliably identify the flaw before the negative impact of LSD. Without a detection mechanism, this is as actionable as "LSD does bad things to some people"