5 ms·

I have to think American citizenship would be a pretty bad choice for a second passport, since America taxes its citizens on income earned abroad. You'd be appr

by et2o 8y ago

I have to think American citizenship would be a pretty bad choice for a second passport, since America taxes its citizens on income earned abroad. You'd be approximately doubling your taxes if you are already taxed on income while abroad. (FWIW I'm an American)

roywiggins 8y ago
America will let you deduct your foreign taxes, so if you live and pay taxes in a high tax country then you in theory won't actually owe anything to the US, but instead you'll owe your accountant for helping you file.
- et2o 8y ago
  Interesting. I was not aware. Wouldn't you still owe the IRS money if the foreign taxes are deducted? As far as I understand tax deductions work like: Initial Income - Deduction = Adjusted Income. Then, you owe full taxes on the Adjusted Income. Let's say European Tax Rate is 40%, American Tax Rate is 20% (hypothetically!) Foreign income is 100k USD equivalent. You pay 40k taxes in Europe and are left with 60K. You deduct 40K from Initial Income, leaving you with adjusted income of 60K. You then pay 20% of that (12K) to the IRS, leaving you with 48K. So you’re in this hypothetical tax range taxed at less than US+European tax, but still have an effective tax rate much greater than not having US citizenship. Simple formula I think: Effective Tax = Income x EuropeanTaxRate + (Income-Income x EuropeanTaxRate) x AmericanTaxRate Factor out income etc. I’m on my phone :-)
  - AdamM12 8y ago
    You don't pay taxes on on your first like 118k in income [1]. Because this lowers your AGI even if you make more than that you still start at the bottom of the tax bracket. Rough example you make 125k thus 125k-118k - 7k in taxable income thus in 10% bracket. There are obviously other rules for non W-2 income and property taxes. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_earned_income_exclusion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_earned_income_exclusio...
  - Hydraulix989 8y ago
    It's not a deduction, it's a credit so it effectively reduces the amount you pay in taxes to the US by the amount you paid to the foreign country. Also, you do get an additional separate exemption/deduction (i.e. NOT a credit) up to around the first 100k of foreign earned income, if you meet some rather stringent qualifications. There are ways to structure things using a foreign corporation to reduce your tax liability. This is changing though with the new 2017 Trump Tax "Cuts" and Jobs Act, which now requires expat business owners to report even their leftover business income as their own personal income (GILTI). Many expat small business owners stand to be financially devastated because the law even taxes previous business income from the last 30 years in a so-called "transition tax." Ouch.
- ericd 8y ago
  Don't forget about FATCA, the penalties are incredibly stiff (failure to report yields penalties that are a significant fraction of the amount of money on deposit). Being a US citizen has great benefits, but it comes with large obligations.
  - roywiggins 8y ago
    Oh yeah, and good luck getting a foreign bank account if you don't already have one. Heck, if you have an American bank account, I've heard European banks don't want to deal with you even if you're a solely European citizen living in Europe.
ericd 8y ago
Right, does this site take into account the obligations, along with the additional freedoms a second citizenship grants? The US' overreaching expat tax laws are a great example, what about the countries that have a mandatory year or two of civil/military service?
mFixman 8y ago
American citizenship is probably the next choice, if just for extra State Department freebies. It's normal for troublesome countries to give more more security to journalists and other American citizens, and the US government rescues idiots stuck North Korea all the time. Most other countries wouldn't lift a finger for their citizens if that would have a significant monetary cost.

by et2o 8y ago

roywiggins 8y ago

America will let you deduct your foreign taxes, so if you live and pay taxes in a high tax country then you in theory won't actually owe anything to the US, but instead you'll owe your accountant for helping you file.

et2o 8y ago
Interesting. I was not aware. Wouldn't you still owe the IRS money if the foreign taxes are deducted? As far as I understand tax deductions work like: Initial Income - Deduction = Adjusted Income. Then, you owe full taxes on the Adjusted Income. Let's say European Tax Rate is 40%, American Tax Rate is 20% (hypothetically!) Foreign income is 100k USD equivalent. You pay 40k taxes in Europe and are left with 60K. You deduct 40K from Initial Income, leaving you with adjusted income of 60K. You then pay 20% of that (12K) to the IRS, leaving you with 48K. So you’re in this hypothetical tax range taxed at less than US+European tax, but still have an effective tax rate much greater than not having US citizenship. Simple formula I think: Effective Tax = Income x EuropeanTaxRate + (Income-Income x EuropeanTaxRate) x AmericanTaxRate Factor out income etc. I’m on my phone :-)
- AdamM12 8y ago
  You don't pay taxes on on your first like 118k in income [1]. Because this lowers your AGI even if you make more than that you still start at the bottom of the tax bracket. Rough example you make 125k thus 125k-118k - 7k in taxable income thus in 10% bracket. There are obviously other rules for non W-2 income and property taxes. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_earned_income_exclusion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_earned_income_exclusio...
- Hydraulix989 8y ago
  It's not a deduction, it's a credit so it effectively reduces the amount you pay in taxes to the US by the amount you paid to the foreign country. Also, you do get an additional separate exemption/deduction (i.e. NOT a credit) up to around the first 100k of foreign earned income, if you meet some rather stringent qualifications. There are ways to structure things using a foreign corporation to reduce your tax liability. This is changing though with the new 2017 Trump Tax "Cuts" and Jobs Act, which now requires expat business owners to report even their leftover business income as their own personal income (GILTI). Many expat small business owners stand to be financially devastated because the law even taxes previous business income from the last 30 years in a so-called "transition tax." Ouch.
ericd 8y ago
Don't forget about FATCA, the penalties are incredibly stiff (failure to report yields penalties that are a significant fraction of the amount of money on deposit). Being a US citizen has great benefits, but it comes with large obligations.
- roywiggins 8y ago
  Oh yeah, and good luck getting a foreign bank account if you don't already have one. Heck, if you have an American bank account, I've heard European banks don't want to deal with you even if you're a solely European citizen living in Europe.

ericd 8y ago

Right, does this site take into account the obligations, along with the additional freedoms a second citizenship grants? The US' overreaching expat tax laws are a great example, what about the countries that have a mandatory year or two of civil/military service?

mFixman 8y ago

American citizenship is probably the next choice, if just for extra State Department freebies. It's normal for troublesome countries to give more more security to journalists and other American citizens, and the US government rescues idiots stuck North Korea all the time. Most other countries wouldn't lift a finger for their citizens if that would have a significant monetary cost.