5 ms·

Number of fatalities per million miles driven is only one of the metrics. Hours spent per lifetime driving is arguably a more important metric. I can't wait for

by hcnews 8y ago

Number of fatalities per million miles driven is only one of the metrics. Hours spent per lifetime driving is arguably a more important metric. I can't wait for everything (cities, highways etc.) to be redesigned for self-driving cars but looks like its not going happen in my life time :(

pvarangot 8y ago
If you have to sell self driving cars as "more people will die but some people will have more free time" it's not going to be as easy as if they are unarguably safer for everyone.
- xyzzyz 8y ago
  I don't think that's true. That's exactly how we were sold on cars in the first place -- you're more likely to die when you drive than when you walk, but you can get places faster to save time. Same can be said about e.g. caffeine. Humans are notoriously bad at estimating and considering tail risks.
  - Smoofer 8y ago
    Care to expand on what you mean by risk vs. return of caffeine?
    - natrik 8y ago
      People drink coffee (consume caffeine) because they wish to be more alert/are sleepy. This is a consequence of not getting enough sleep. Lack of sleep has many documented negative effects, but people trade sleep (health) for productivity/etc. via caffeine intake.
  - perl4ever 8y ago
    Cars didn't replace walking, they replaced horses. I think you are begging the question - are cars more dangerous than horses? Just from reading random history, it seems like a lot of famous people were killed by riding accidents. And even today when the vast majority of people don't ride horses, I bet you can name a famous person who had a terrible accident.
    - xyzzyz 8y ago
      Horse riding was much less popular than you think. What was much more popular was horse-powered carriages, which are much more convenient than riding, and also less dangerous. Horse riding was pretty much a hobby, a hobby of the rich at that. Try reading some books from the era. For example, in Steinbeck’s “East of Eden” there is a quite funny moment when Hamilton sons were going for dances, when two older brothers already took family buggies, the younger didn’t choose to ride on a horse, but did something quite different, which made his mother very unhappy.
      - perl4ever 8y ago
        Do you have any specific reason for believing the transition from horses to internal combustion engines increased casualties in the long run? Or is it just a gut feeling?
ummonk 8y ago
I mean, it is already hard enough to redesign infrastructure for trains, trolleys, buses, etc...
ucaetano 8y ago
> I can't wait for [cities] to be redesigned for self-driving cars Personally, I hope it never happens. The US is still suffering from when its cities were redesigned for cars, vs. public transit and pedestrians. Self-driving cars can and will play a very important role in transportation, but cities should be designed around people, not cars. Edit: I'm by no means criticizing your hope, and I do agree with you that cities should be redesigned to "accommodate" self driving cars, such as "buffer garages" (where autonomous cars are parked in a FIFO way, not in the way cars are parked today), auto-charging stations, smart curbs for pick-up/drop-off, etc.
- kjeetgill 8y ago
  One of the biggest issues is that the road infrastructure and the city layout is already there. Sure cities may be better if they were walkable but most people live across the full metropolitan areas. Taking the SF Bay area an example: Sure I can take the Caltrain or the Bart to get to nearly any city but it'll always be the long way around. Think San Mateo to Union City. Crossing a bridge it's direct. The road infra structure is already there and the cities are built around it. Sure there's probably some cryptic bus route but the difference right now is (with a quick google) 35 mins vs 1.5 hr. I think self driving cars have the potential to build on our car centric ecosystems. Look at how Uber/Lyft have adapted into Uber Pool and Lyft Line. They've done more to change people's driving habits than any changes to the public transportation system. I'm excited to see how self driving cars solve this by dropping the price point further and exploring larger pools.
  - trhway 8y ago
    >Think San Mateo to Union City. Crossing a bridge it's direct. The road infra structure is already there and the cities are built around it. Sure there's probably some cryptic bus route but the difference right now is (with a quick google) 35 mins vs 1.5 hr. that is the use case best suited for flying tub https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQK9m_OBVgY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQK9m_OBVgY
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]

by hcnews 8y ago

pvarangot 8y ago

If you have to sell self driving cars as "more people will die but some people will have more free time" it's not going to be as easy as if they are unarguably safer for everyone.

xyzzyz 8y ago
I don't think that's true. That's exactly how we were sold on cars in the first place -- you're more likely to die when you drive than when you walk, but you can get places faster to save time. Same can be said about e.g. caffeine. Humans are notoriously bad at estimating and considering tail risks.
- Smoofer 8y ago
  Care to expand on what you mean by risk vs. return of caffeine?
  - natrik 8y ago
    People drink coffee (consume caffeine) because they wish to be more alert/are sleepy. This is a consequence of not getting enough sleep. Lack of sleep has many documented negative effects, but people trade sleep (health) for productivity/etc. via caffeine intake.
- perl4ever 8y ago
  Cars didn't replace walking, they replaced horses. I think you are begging the question - are cars more dangerous than horses? Just from reading random history, it seems like a lot of famous people were killed by riding accidents. And even today when the vast majority of people don't ride horses, I bet you can name a famous person who had a terrible accident.
  - xyzzyz 8y ago
    Horse riding was much less popular than you think. What was much more popular was horse-powered carriages, which are much more convenient than riding, and also less dangerous. Horse riding was pretty much a hobby, a hobby of the rich at that. Try reading some books from the era. For example, in Steinbeck’s “East of Eden” there is a quite funny moment when Hamilton sons were going for dances, when two older brothers already took family buggies, the younger didn’t choose to ride on a horse, but did something quite different, which made his mother very unhappy.
    - perl4ever 8y ago
      Do you have any specific reason for believing the transition from horses to internal combustion engines increased casualties in the long run? Or is it just a gut feeling?

ummonk 8y ago

I mean, it is already hard enough to redesign infrastructure for trains, trolleys, buses, etc...

ucaetano 8y ago

> I can't wait for [cities] to be redesigned for self-driving cars Personally, I hope it never happens. The US is still suffering from when its cities were redesigned for cars, vs. public transit and pedestrians. Self-driving cars can and will play a very important role in transportation, but cities should be designed around people, not cars. Edit: I'm by no means criticizing your hope, and I do agree with you that cities should be redesigned to "accommodate" self driving cars, such as "buffer garages" (where autonomous cars are parked in a FIFO way, not in the way cars are parked today), auto-charging stations, smart curbs for pick-up/drop-off, etc.

kjeetgill 8y ago
One of the biggest issues is that the road infrastructure and the city layout is already there. Sure cities may be better if they were walkable but most people live across the full metropolitan areas. Taking the SF Bay area an example: Sure I can take the Caltrain or the Bart to get to nearly any city but it'll always be the long way around. Think San Mateo to Union City. Crossing a bridge it's direct. The road infra structure is already there and the cities are built around it. Sure there's probably some cryptic bus route but the difference right now is (with a quick google) 35 mins vs 1.5 hr. I think self driving cars have the potential to build on our car centric ecosystems. Look at how Uber/Lyft have adapted into Uber Pool and Lyft Line. They've done more to change people's driving habits than any changes to the public transportation system. I'm excited to see how self driving cars solve this by dropping the price point further and exploring larger pools.
- trhway 8y ago
  >Think San Mateo to Union City. Crossing a bridge it's direct. The road infra structure is already there and the cities are built around it. Sure there's probably some cryptic bus route but the difference right now is (with a quick google) 35 mins vs 1.5 hr. that is the use case best suited for flying tub https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQK9m_OBVgY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQK9m_OBVgY
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]