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I don't understand the desire to race as fast as possible through the natural splendor of the mountains. I feel like these speed-climbing folks are really missi

I don't understand the desire to race as fast as possible through the natural splendor of the mountains. I feel like these speed-climbing folks are really missing out on the experience.

mbostleman 8y ago
I am just a weekend warrior, but my primary motivation in the mountains is continuously upping my skills and fitness to move through them faster and more efficiently. I don't feel like I'm missing an experience. To the contrary, I feel like I'm closer to the experience because much of it involves understanding the environment, yourself, the tech, and how they all work together. There are also a number of practical benefits to moving fast. For one, the longer you spend on a route, the more exposure you have to risks from all categories. So the faster you get there and back, the less likely you are to get hurt (assuming your speed is based on skill and fitness and not carelessness). Second, if there is a tangible need to get something done (like a rescue), then being able to do it quickly and safely is invaluable. As such, one of the benefits of the new social media sponsored mountain athletes like Jornet is that boundaries are pushed and we get to learn new things about what humans can do on mountains.
EliRivers 8y ago
For some of these people, the fact that there's natural splendour there isn't the point and isn't relevant. It's like game-grinding. Pick a new achievement - running through mountain trail X - and then grind it. Tick it off, do the next one. Whatever they're seeking is inside their heads and the setting is just a convenience. It could just as easily be a featureless 50 mile tunnel. The setting is relevant only as far as it's a recognised thing to grind and tick off.
- adenadel 8y ago
  This is not at all how professional trail/ultra runners approach their lives. You can follow a lot of them on social media (including Kilian Jornet) see how they actually spend their days.
  - EliRivers 8y ago
    And it's not how everyone who plays games plays. But some do. I suspect there are many you don't see on the social media. It would be a strange field of human endeavor if it somehow managed to not have any people like this. I doubt they'd be the professionals. They wouldn't be the social media self-publicitors.
    - adenadel 8y ago
      The professional ultra running scene isn't like what you think of when you think professional sports. There are certainly runners on the track and in road races that take the mindset you are describing, but ultra/trail running is very different from other pro sports.
      - runnr_az 8y ago
        That's been my experience too... I've known many triathletes who will do an extra lap around the parking lot to meet their coach's exact plans, but that seems a lot less common among trail runners.
- mereel 8y ago
  > For some of these people, the fact that there's natural splendour there isn't the point and isn't relevant I can't think of a single climber, mountaineer or ultra runner I know that any of that applies to (including myself). Do you have any actual examples of people like that? > setting is just a convenience Nothing about ultra running in the mountains is a "convenience"... in my experience the opposite is true, and almost everything done in the mountains is done easier on flat ground.
  - EliRivers 8y ago
    Do you have any actual examples of people like that? The grind and checkboxing mentality extends to many walks of life. Game players. Bird watchers (I think such people are explicitly known as "tickers" in that field, but I couldn't tell you where I picked that up). Collectors. and almost everything done in the mountains is done easier on flat ground Sure. And how many mountain ultramarathons are on flat ground? None, I bet. The flat ground ones attract the obsessive marathon runners; those who have a target of fifty or some such and grind away at them. I'm not decrying these people. The event happens inside their heads. They're clearly getting something out of it.
    - C7H8N4O2 8y ago
      > And how many mountain ultramarathons are on flat ground? None, I bet. Seems like a safe bet.
watwut 8y ago
They spend ridiculous amount of time in mountains while training. They also do climbs that are not speed climbs.
runjake 8y ago
He grew up in the Pyrenees mountains and has spent much of his life since exploring the world professionally. He's not missing out on experiences.
buzzdenver 8y ago
It's a different kind of experience than if you were to check out every pebble and smell every flower. I don't think you can compare them and say which one is more valid. To better understand the "other side", consider these: o When going fast you cover more ground, see the mountain from different sides, catch the view from different peaks, etc... o Exerting yourself physically excites the body and the mind. It's just a different overall experience, some would say more primal. (edit formatting)
- derek_frome 8y ago
  This has been my experience. For instance, there's a ~40 mile loop in the Sierras that I've done as a 3 day backpacking trip and as a one-day run. Carrying more means I can bring my nice camera and take photos anywhere I want to stop. But going light and fast means I get to experience the place unburdened, with just food and water on my back. It's impossible to say one is better or worse than the other. Although I can tell you which one hurt more.
argyleaf 8y ago
From a former climber's perspective, moving expediently through terrain is frequently the safest mode of operation. Every second you are in the mountains you are exposing yourself to increased risk of a catastrophic accident. Even if this is a terrifically low probability event if you spend enough time there it will likely bite you. Thus pursuing the fastest methods of travel is, from my perspective, aspiring to the highest ideals of mountaineering because it allows you to do it for longer (hopefully).

I don't understand the desire to race as fast as possible through the natural splendor of the mountains. I feel like these speed-climbing folks are really missing out on the experience.

mbostleman 8y ago

I am just a weekend warrior, but my primary motivation in the mountains is continuously upping my skills and fitness to move through them faster and more efficiently. I don't feel like I'm missing an experience. To the contrary, I feel like I'm closer to the experience because much of it involves understanding the environment, yourself, the tech, and how they all work together. There are also a number of practical benefits to moving fast. For one, the longer you spend on a route, the more exposure you have to risks from all categories. So the faster you get there and back, the less likely you are to get hurt (assuming your speed is based on skill and fitness and not carelessness). Second, if there is a tangible need to get something done (like a rescue), then being able to do it quickly and safely is invaluable. As such, one of the benefits of the new social media sponsored mountain athletes like Jornet is that boundaries are pushed and we get to learn new things about what humans can do on mountains.

EliRivers 8y ago

For some of these people, the fact that there's natural splendour there isn't the point and isn't relevant. It's like game-grinding. Pick a new achievement - running through mountain trail X - and then grind it. Tick it off, do the next one. Whatever they're seeking is inside their heads and the setting is just a convenience. It could just as easily be a featureless 50 mile tunnel. The setting is relevant only as far as it's a recognised thing to grind and tick off.

adenadel 8y ago
This is not at all how professional trail/ultra runners approach their lives. You can follow a lot of them on social media (including Kilian Jornet) see how they actually spend their days.
- EliRivers 8y ago
  And it's not how everyone who plays games plays. But some do. I suspect there are many you don't see on the social media. It would be a strange field of human endeavor if it somehow managed to not have any people like this. I doubt they'd be the professionals. They wouldn't be the social media self-publicitors.
  - adenadel 8y ago
    The professional ultra running scene isn't like what you think of when you think professional sports. There are certainly runners on the track and in road races that take the mindset you are describing, but ultra/trail running is very different from other pro sports.
    - runnr_az 8y ago
      That's been my experience too... I've known many triathletes who will do an extra lap around the parking lot to meet their coach's exact plans, but that seems a lot less common among trail runners.
mereel 8y ago
> For some of these people, the fact that there's natural splendour there isn't the point and isn't relevant I can't think of a single climber, mountaineer or ultra runner I know that any of that applies to (including myself). Do you have any actual examples of people like that? > setting is just a convenience Nothing about ultra running in the mountains is a "convenience"... in my experience the opposite is true, and almost everything done in the mountains is done easier on flat ground.
- EliRivers 8y ago
  Do you have any actual examples of people like that? The grind and checkboxing mentality extends to many walks of life. Game players. Bird watchers (I think such people are explicitly known as "tickers" in that field, but I couldn't tell you where I picked that up). Collectors. and almost everything done in the mountains is done easier on flat ground Sure. And how many mountain ultramarathons are on flat ground? None, I bet. The flat ground ones attract the obsessive marathon runners; those who have a target of fifty or some such and grind away at them. I'm not decrying these people. The event happens inside their heads. They're clearly getting something out of it.
  - C7H8N4O2 8y ago
    > And how many mountain ultramarathons are on flat ground? None, I bet. Seems like a safe bet.

watwut 8y ago

They spend ridiculous amount of time in mountains while training. They also do climbs that are not speed climbs.

runjake 8y ago

He grew up in the Pyrenees mountains and has spent much of his life since exploring the world professionally. He's not missing out on experiences.

buzzdenver 8y ago

It's a different kind of experience than if you were to check out every pebble and smell every flower. I don't think you can compare them and say which one is more valid. To better understand the "other side", consider these: o When going fast you cover more ground, see the mountain from different sides, catch the view from different peaks, etc... o Exerting yourself physically excites the body and the mind. It's just a different overall experience, some would say more primal. (edit formatting)

derek_frome 8y ago
This has been my experience. For instance, there's a ~40 mile loop in the Sierras that I've done as a 3 day backpacking trip and as a one-day run. Carrying more means I can bring my nice camera and take photos anywhere I want to stop. But going light and fast means I get to experience the place unburdened, with just food and water on my back. It's impossible to say one is better or worse than the other. Although I can tell you which one hurt more.

argyleaf 8y ago

From a former climber's perspective, moving expediently through terrain is frequently the safest mode of operation. Every second you are in the mountains you are exposing yourself to increased risk of a catastrophic accident. Even if this is a terrifically low probability event if you spend enough time there it will likely bite you. Thus pursuing the fastest methods of travel is, from my perspective, aspiring to the highest ideals of mountaineering because it allows you to do it for longer (hopefully).