4 ms·

Wait, the US finally comes up with some new cool mass-transit technology and we're not even building it here? Shame.

meddlepal 8y ago
We can't build any public infrastructure in the US anymore. Too complicated between environmental regs, NIMBYism, and corruption.
- arblegobblebrbl 8y ago
  We only got things done in the past when a Big Power From Above forced it into being so
- curtis 8y ago
  > We can't build any public infrastructure in the US anymore. I know it feels that way, but it's not strictly true. Here in Seattle in the last decade we've built a new floating bridge, multiple miles of underground light rail track, and nearly two miles of deep bore road tunnel. I think there is a real problem that our new infrastructure is way too expensive and takes way too long to build, but we've demonstrated that we can definitely build new stuff.
  - blackrock 8y ago
    Seattle's light rail is mediocre. I wish they had gone full in with a heavy rail and subway system instead. They could've used that to link up Seattle, Tacoma, Redmond, Kent, Bainbridge Island, Vashon Island, and the entire Seattle area. And to keep costs of building the infrastructure down, then they should consider outsourcing it, and hiring Chinese labor. (Apparently, the Chinese are very good at building railroads.) That way, you keep development costs down, and afterwards, the local citizens can enjoy first-world infrastructure, at low rates. But, when infrastructure projects become billion dollar estimates, then that just kills any opportunity of it ever being developed. Simply, because it now becomes a major high-paying jobs program.
greglindahl 8y ago
We are building a new, cool mass-transit system here, there's going to be a small-bore tunnel with electric skates between downtown Chicago and the airport. Edit: clarified what "it" is.
- njarboe 8y ago
  That is just a regular type tunnel built by the Boring Company and using electric vehicles in it. Not an evacuated tunnel with very fast vehicles. Spending extra for Hyperloop speeds really only make sense for longer distances. Not sure why this Chinese project is so short unless it is just a bigger type demo for the company and China hopes to acquire the technology like it has for so many other advanced systems invented in the west.
  - greglindahl 8y ago
    That Chicago system is novel in several ways, but if you don't think it's as cool as other projects, that's fine.
    - njarboe 8y ago
      The tunnel is cool and great. I hope we can get these tunnels all over the place. I was just saying "Were building it here" is factually wrong about the Chicago tunnel being a Hyperloop tunnel.
      - greglindahl 8y ago
        "It" is "new cool mass-transit technology". That sounds to me like something that's a matter of opinion, not fact. Edit: Ah, your stealth edit indicates you thought I was talking about Hyperloop! I wasn't. I edited the top to indicate that.
_Schizotypy 8y ago
What about a train is "new" or "cool"? Oh, its in an expensive pointless vacuum tube? Is that the "new/cool" part?
bobthepanda 8y ago
"Cool" and "new" usually ends up meaning "expensive" and "proprietary" later on, especially if it's not standards conforming and tries to reinvent the wheel. See: BART
- dczot 8y ago
  Interesting, what was cool and new about BART originally?
  - bobthepanda 8y ago
    BART's technology was created by aerospace engineers who wanted to reinvent the railroad and make it "better". What this resulted in was - a wider track gauge than any other used in the US - bespoke rolling stock with different braking, control, coupling systems - untested ATO that had several early failures The first two have had lasting impacts; servicing BART equipment is very difficult because no one else has ever made traincars like that, and it makes it difficult to extend BART over existing rail tracks. The expensive of all this "cool" factor is at least a factor of two over standard rail projects, which is why eBART was built as a normal diesel rail line instead of as a BART extension. Other examples of "cool" transit technologies that ended up aging poorly because of their rarity are monorails and maglevs. With economies of scale it's hard to beat trains, and trains already go to 220+ MPH; there are very few markets where you would need to go significantly faster via land, and where doing so would be a big advantage over air travel, as Hyperloop is proposing.
bufferoverflow 8y ago
Vactrains aren't "new". They were invented and patented in the 18th century. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vactrain https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vactrain
melling 8y ago
The US doesn’t really do mass transit. We widen roads. China has 16,000 miles of high-speed rail. We have essentially zero. It makes more sense to build this in China. They already have high-speed and low-speed maglev trains.
- _Schizotypy 8y ago
  It doesn't make sense to build it at all. Not unless you nix the tube and just build a reliable high speed rail system.

We can't build any public infrastructure in the US anymore. Too complicated between environmental regs, NIMBYism, and corruption.

arblegobblebrbl 8y ago
We only got things done in the past when a Big Power From Above forced it into being so
curtis 8y ago
> We can't build any public infrastructure in the US anymore. I know it feels that way, but it's not strictly true. Here in Seattle in the last decade we've built a new floating bridge, multiple miles of underground light rail track, and nearly two miles of deep bore road tunnel. I think there is a real problem that our new infrastructure is way too expensive and takes way too long to build, but we've demonstrated that we can definitely build new stuff.
- blackrock 8y ago
  Seattle's light rail is mediocre. I wish they had gone full in with a heavy rail and subway system instead. They could've used that to link up Seattle, Tacoma, Redmond, Kent, Bainbridge Island, Vashon Island, and the entire Seattle area. And to keep costs of building the infrastructure down, then they should consider outsourcing it, and hiring Chinese labor. (Apparently, the Chinese are very good at building railroads.) That way, you keep development costs down, and afterwards, the local citizens can enjoy first-world infrastructure, at low rates. But, when infrastructure projects become billion dollar estimates, then that just kills any opportunity of it ever being developed. Simply, because it now becomes a major high-paying jobs program.

greglindahl 8y ago

We are building a new, cool mass-transit system here, there's going to be a small-bore tunnel with electric skates between downtown Chicago and the airport. Edit: clarified what "it" is.

njarboe 8y ago
That is just a regular type tunnel built by the Boring Company and using electric vehicles in it. Not an evacuated tunnel with very fast vehicles. Spending extra for Hyperloop speeds really only make sense for longer distances. Not sure why this Chinese project is so short unless it is just a bigger type demo for the company and China hopes to acquire the technology like it has for so many other advanced systems invented in the west.
- greglindahl 8y ago
  That Chicago system is novel in several ways, but if you don't think it's as cool as other projects, that's fine.
  - njarboe 8y ago
    The tunnel is cool and great. I hope we can get these tunnels all over the place. I was just saying "Were building it here" is factually wrong about the Chicago tunnel being a Hyperloop tunnel.
    - greglindahl 8y ago
      "It" is "new cool mass-transit technology". That sounds to me like something that's a matter of opinion, not fact. Edit: Ah, your stealth edit indicates you thought I was talking about Hyperloop! I wasn't. I edited the top to indicate that.

_Schizotypy 8y ago

What about a train is "new" or "cool"? Oh, its in an expensive pointless vacuum tube? Is that the "new/cool" part?

bobthepanda 8y ago

"Cool" and "new" usually ends up meaning "expensive" and "proprietary" later on, especially if it's not standards conforming and tries to reinvent the wheel. See: BART

dczot 8y ago
Interesting, what was cool and new about BART originally?
- bobthepanda 8y ago
  BART's technology was created by aerospace engineers who wanted to reinvent the railroad and make it "better". What this resulted in was - a wider track gauge than any other used in the US - bespoke rolling stock with different braking, control, coupling systems - untested ATO that had several early failures The first two have had lasting impacts; servicing BART equipment is very difficult because no one else has ever made traincars like that, and it makes it difficult to extend BART over existing rail tracks. The expensive of all this "cool" factor is at least a factor of two over standard rail projects, which is why eBART was built as a normal diesel rail line instead of as a BART extension. Other examples of "cool" transit technologies that ended up aging poorly because of their rarity are monorails and maglevs. With economies of scale it's hard to beat trains, and trains already go to 220+ MPH; there are very few markets where you would need to go significantly faster via land, and where doing so would be a big advantage over air travel, as Hyperloop is proposing.

bufferoverflow 8y ago

Vactrains aren't "new". They were invented and patented in the 18th century. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vactrain https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vactrain

melling 8y ago

The US doesn’t really do mass transit. We widen roads. China has 16,000 miles of high-speed rail. We have essentially zero. It makes more sense to build this in China. They already have high-speed and low-speed maglev trains.

_Schizotypy 8y ago
It doesn't make sense to build it at all. Not unless you nix the tube and just build a reliable high speed rail system.