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It's not absurd if it gets us better terms. If my friend was selling me a car at a higher, off-market price, I'd still haggle ("pick fights" in your terms) wit

It's not absurd if it gets us better terms. If my friend was selling me a car at a higher, off-market price, I'd still haggle ("pick fights" in your terms) with him. In fact, I'd push for a friend discount. He might even give the discount to me if he thought there was more value to be had in the long term relationship.

mikeash 8y ago
Would you push so hard that you destroy the friendship? There’s nothing wrong with negotiating with friends, but when you go out of your way to constantly piss them off and threaten them, you’re not going to have any friends for long.
- shortoncash 8y ago
  Negotiating for more favorable terms is destroying friendships now? Come on now. Obviously there's a boundary, but if there's a known market price, it's obvious when someone is being unreasonable.
  - mikeash 8y ago
    “Negotiating for more favorable terms is destroying friendships now?” No. I didn’t say that. Nobody said that. What?
    - shortoncash 8y ago
      You didn't say it, but the question you asked implies a stable friendship can be destroyed by "hard" negotiations. I disagree with that premise. Why? Well, I'd argue that if you're seeking "fair value" and are 1) not unreasonable, 2) your friend is not unreasonable, and 3) there is more or less a market price or consensus about the value of an object, there is little no risk of destroying the friendship -- reasonable people can seek fair value and market transactions can support claims about value. If 1, 2, or 3 aren't in place then your friendship is on shaky ground already (someone is unreasonable) or the market for an object is just hard to price (and more information is required for reasonable people to come to a consensus.)
      - mikeash 8y ago
        The problem here is (1). Yes, if everybody is reasonable, you’ll be fine. That’s completely not the case here. For example, you might threaten to harm them unless they concede something to you, which may work but is not going to keep friends.
        shortoncash 8y ago
        Regarding global events, it looks like reasoned behavior prevailed in the end and the friendship is still in tact. None of my conditions were violated.

mikeash 8y ago

Would you push so hard that you destroy the friendship? There’s nothing wrong with negotiating with friends, but when you go out of your way to constantly piss them off and threaten them, you’re not going to have any friends for long.

shortoncash 8y ago
Negotiating for more favorable terms is destroying friendships now? Come on now. Obviously there's a boundary, but if there's a known market price, it's obvious when someone is being unreasonable.
- mikeash 8y ago
  “Negotiating for more favorable terms is destroying friendships now?” No. I didn’t say that. Nobody said that. What?
  - shortoncash 8y ago
    You didn't say it, but the question you asked implies a stable friendship can be destroyed by "hard" negotiations. I disagree with that premise. Why? Well, I'd argue that if you're seeking "fair value" and are 1) not unreasonable, 2) your friend is not unreasonable, and 3) there is more or less a market price or consensus about the value of an object, there is little no risk of destroying the friendship -- reasonable people can seek fair value and market transactions can support claims about value. If 1, 2, or 3 aren't in place then your friendship is on shaky ground already (someone is unreasonable) or the market for an object is just hard to price (and more information is required for reasonable people to come to a consensus.)
    - mikeash 8y ago
      The problem here is (1). Yes, if everybody is reasonable, you’ll be fine. That’s completely not the case here. For example, you might threaten to harm them unless they concede something to you, which may work but is not going to keep friends.
      - shortoncash 8y ago
        Regarding global events, it looks like reasoned behavior prevailed in the end and the friendship is still in tact. None of my conditions were violated.