4 ms·

> If you build a suburb I didn't build a suburb - it was already here, just like you didn't build the city you live in. I drove to the suburb to begin with of

> If you build a suburb I didn't build a suburb - it was already here, just like you didn't build the city you live in. I drove to the suburb to begin with of my own free will because I didn't like living in a city (having already done so, Buffalo & Boston.) I'd already made the choice to live a lifestyle that is automobile-inclusive ;) You don't get to judge or decide for me what is right for me and vice-versa. We all have a choices to make and do the best we can with what we have. It's interesting that for all the intelligent people on HN, there's a lack of empathy and understanding that everyone has their own perception of reality. What's 'right' and 'real' in your mind may 1) not actually be reality 2) be neither 'right' nor 'wrong', but just a personal preference/opinion. I got a taste of this myself when I stumbled upon this book (and it's second part) https://www.amazon.com/DAY-Through-German-Eyes-Hidden-ebook/dp/B00VX372UE https://www.amazon.com/DAY-Through-German-Eyes-Hidden-ebook/... (D-Day through German Eyes.) It's been eye-opening for me because I'd always assumed the Germans troops were evil men who were all bent on conquering Europe.

dionidium 8y ago
Unfortunately, this live-and-let-live account of history simply isn’t true. The suburbs were made possible via massive government subsidies, both in infrastructure and incentives for suburban homeownership. Also, exclusionary zoning played an enormous role in deciding what those places looked like and they did it in large part to control who got to live there. Finally, your lifestyle choices have externalities, from the immediately obvious 30k deaths a year, to more dangerous streets for people who choose not to drive, to environmental damage, to cities clogged with the cars of suburban commuters twice a day.
- GiorgioG 8y ago
  Your urban lifestyle choices have externalities as well, you just choose to ignore (or not look for them.) http://science.time.com/2012/09/18/urban-planet-how-growing-cities-will-wreck-the-environment-unless-we-build-them-right/ http://science.time.com/2012/09/18/urban-planet-how-growing-... https://www.prb.org/urbanizationanenvironmentalforcetobereckonedwith/ https://www.prb.org/urbanizationanenvironmentalforcetobereck...
  - dionidium 8y ago
    Respectfully, you've misunderstood what they mean by urbanization in those articles and completely missed their point, which is about the growth of urban areas (which includes suburbs) in general: "It’s true that as people in developing nations move from the countryside to the city, the shift may reduce the pressure on land, which could in turn be good for the environment. This is especially so in desperately poor countries like Madagascar, where residents in the countryside slash and burn forests each growing season to clear space for farming. But the real difference is that in developing nations, the move from rural areas to cities often leads to an accompanying increase in income — and that increase in income leads to an increase in the consumption of food and energy, which in turns produces an uptick in carbon emissions." In other words, wealthier people living in urban areas -- in both city cores and in the suburbs -- are worse for the environment than rural poor folks, and as developing nations urbanize, we can expect to see an increase in these impacts.
    - GiorgioG 8y ago
      So now your opinion is that cities are equally bad...great so we've come full circle - we should all go live on a farm - got it. Farmers need pickup trucks so I guess I'm good to go (I happen to live within spitting distance of several farms so it's even more convenient.) People on HN needs to get over themselves. Smart yes, able to see other's perspectives...hardly.

dionidium 8y ago

Unfortunately, this live-and-let-live account of history simply isn’t true. The suburbs were made possible via massive government subsidies, both in infrastructure and incentives for suburban homeownership. Also, exclusionary zoning played an enormous role in deciding what those places looked like and they did it in large part to control who got to live there. Finally, your lifestyle choices have externalities, from the immediately obvious 30k deaths a year, to more dangerous streets for people who choose not to drive, to environmental damage, to cities clogged with the cars of suburban commuters twice a day.

GiorgioG 8y ago
Your urban lifestyle choices have externalities as well, you just choose to ignore (or not look for them.) http://science.time.com/2012/09/18/urban-planet-how-growing-cities-will-wreck-the-environment-unless-we-build-them-right/ http://science.time.com/2012/09/18/urban-planet-how-growing-... https://www.prb.org/urbanizationanenvironmentalforcetobereckonedwith/ https://www.prb.org/urbanizationanenvironmentalforcetobereck...
- dionidium 8y ago
  Respectfully, you've misunderstood what they mean by urbanization in those articles and completely missed their point, which is about the growth of urban areas (which includes suburbs) in general: "It’s true that as people in developing nations move from the countryside to the city, the shift may reduce the pressure on land, which could in turn be good for the environment. This is especially so in desperately poor countries like Madagascar, where residents in the countryside slash and burn forests each growing season to clear space for farming. But the real difference is that in developing nations, the move from rural areas to cities often leads to an accompanying increase in income — and that increase in income leads to an increase in the consumption of food and energy, which in turns produces an uptick in carbon emissions." In other words, wealthier people living in urban areas -- in both city cores and in the suburbs -- are worse for the environment than rural poor folks, and as developing nations urbanize, we can expect to see an increase in these impacts.
  - GiorgioG 8y ago
    So now your opinion is that cities are equally bad...great so we've come full circle - we should all go live on a farm - got it. Farmers need pickup trucks so I guess I'm good to go (I happen to live within spitting distance of several farms so it's even more convenient.) People on HN needs to get over themselves. Smart yes, able to see other's perspectives...hardly.