5 ms·

Because they have not changed.

chrisco255 8y ago
Uhhh, they've changed a lot. They actively support competing platforms, releasing products for Android, iOS, Mac OS and Linux. They support Ubuntu on Windows in terminal, they regularly contribute to open source from React Native to Electron. Edge is a huge improvement over IE and it fully embraces web standards. Microsoft has even merged their web docs with Mozilla. They support .NET on all platforms.
- executesorder66 8y ago
  Let me know if they ever release Windows, Office or NTFS(drivers) for Linux. Only then will I admit that they have actually changed. The rest is just a trap to get developers back on their platform.
  - oblio 8y ago
    If they do what Apple is doing, is that good enough for you?
    - executesorder66 8y ago
      That depends on what you mean by "what Apple is doing". I'm not a fan of Apple either, but at least they are not hypocrites. If MS stopped pretending that they <3 Linux. (see my other comments) And if they stopped pretending that they are this new friendly open company. Forcing upgrades to win10 and forced telemetry that is a pain in the ass to turn of permanently, is not at all open or user friendly. What a privacy nightmare. If they did just that, then at least I wouldn't hate them for being such hypocritical assholes. They'd just be a company whose products I don't like.
  - gurkendoktor 8y ago
    Exactly. Everything that "new Microsoft" does right is targeted squarely at developers. I'll judge Microsoft by how it treats the rest of the world: dark patterns to accelerate Windows 10 adoption, using consumers as beta testers, protecting their Office monopoly above all else.
    - chrisco255 8y ago
      It's mainly only developers that use Linux. Using consumers as beta testers? Who doesn't do that or something to that effect these days? "Move fast and break things" ship fast, get feedback, and iterate, etc. These are all mantras of agile, startup culture. Meanwhile, I'm not sure I see this with their latest products at all.
      - gurkendoktor 8y ago
        I think there's a difference between shipping untested changes on an ad-backed cat picture web app, and selling a $99+ operating system that is essentially a beta version: https://www.computerworld.com/article/2878026/microsoft-to-business-dont-worry-about-windows-10-consumers-will-test-it.html https://www.computerworld.com/article/2878026/microsoft-to-b... I thought that this article was overly pessimistic until Microsoft's rings of "insiders" didn't catch the fact that the Windows 1803 update broke machines with pretty common Intel and Toshiba SSDs. All of this wouldn't bother me at all if it weren't for the MS Office monopoly that forced everyone from schoolchildren to public servants to deal with this crap. I want nothing to do with keeping this business running.
  - lou1306 8y ago
    Oh yes, it would be amazing to see "Windows for Linux". Whatever that means.
    - executesorder66 8y ago
      I was originally going to say that they should open source those. But then I changed my mind to just releasing it on multiple platforms as a start. And so Windows doesn't make sense there. I should have proof read that better. Thanks for pointing it out.
    - vetinari 8y ago
      For example: a (para)-VM that's capable of running off Linux filesystem or subvolume (so you don't need to allocate separate partition or disk image for that), capable of running all the win32 binaries, and seamlessly integrating into Linux desktop and infrastructure (i.e. non AD-Kerberos would be great).
  - arethuza 8y ago
    I would say the obvious barrier to releasing Office for Linux is that nobody would use it, so why bother?
    - executesorder66 8y ago
      What makes you think that nobody would use it? If Libreoffice is good enough, then why doesn't everybody use it instead of Office?
    - vetinari 8y ago
      If they released Office for Linux, (preferably flatpack-ed), that respects privacy and works offline, I would be among the first to purchase it.
  - whywhywhywhy 8y ago
    > Office for Linux If they honestly released a top notch version of Office for Linux would you, in 2018 where most have switched to Google Docs or other web based office tools actually use it? I very much doubt it. I feel you're just reeling these things off as some burden of work you want them to toil away at as a debt you expect them to pay to the Linux community.
    - executesorder66 8y ago
      99% of the people I know use MS Office. Maybe 20% use google Docs but not as their main office suite. If they did release Office for Linux, I'd use it for work, since everyone uses it there. > I feel you're just reeling these things off as some burden of work you want them to toil away at as a debt you expect them to pay to the Linux community. I don't think they owe anyone anything. I'm just saying if they claim to love open source or Linux, then they need to prove it.
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
  - pluma 8y ago
    I know you're being facetious, but Office 365 is currently being rewritten in JavaScript: https://twitter.com/thelarkinn/status/1006746626617008128 https://twitter.com/thelarkinn/status/1006746626617008128 So the online version of Office 365 and the desktop version and the mobile apps will share a lot of the same code. This would also make it far easier to deliver desktop apps for Linux should they decide it's worth it. They've also worked together with Linux projects to make the Windows Subsystem for Linux a thing (so you can now actually "install Ubuntu" from the Windows app store). The vendor lock-in company you're thinking of is now called Apple, not Microsoft.
- merinowool 8y ago
  They have changed for worst. When I upgraded my PC recently my retail Windows deactivated and it took me few days of talking to "support" to re-activate it. They were treating me like a potential thief and I had to even show them invoices that I have indeed purchased new motherboard. Another one - I purchased Visual Studio 2015 just before they released 2017. They didn't want to give me a refund nor upgrade deal. Oh and you cannot turn off spying in their Windows 10.
- vetinari 8y ago
  They have spend decades indoctrinating their users, that command line is baaad... and now it is a good thing, that they support linux binaries in windows command line? I will believe they changed, when they release their crown jewels (especially Office) for Linux as a first-class release (i.e. not ala IE for Solaris or WMP for HPUX).
eklavyaa 8y ago
they have definitely changed, they have re-aligned themselves with what matter today. There earnings has just surpassed $100 billions which is the direct effect of their re prioritizing the product lines and philosophy. https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/jul/19/microsoft-earnings-cloud-services-revenue https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/jul/19/microsoft...
- baybal2 8y ago
  Going IBM? If so, yes

Uhhh, they've changed a lot. They actively support competing platforms, releasing products for Android, iOS, Mac OS and Linux. They support Ubuntu on Windows in terminal, they regularly contribute to open source from React Native to Electron. Edge is a huge improvement over IE and it fully embraces web standards. Microsoft has even merged their web docs with Mozilla. They support .NET on all platforms.

executesorder66 8y ago
Let me know if they ever release Windows, Office or NTFS(drivers) for Linux. Only then will I admit that they have actually changed. The rest is just a trap to get developers back on their platform.
- oblio 8y ago
  If they do what Apple is doing, is that good enough for you?
  - executesorder66 8y ago
    That depends on what you mean by "what Apple is doing". I'm not a fan of Apple either, but at least they are not hypocrites. If MS stopped pretending that they <3 Linux. (see my other comments) And if they stopped pretending that they are this new friendly open company. Forcing upgrades to win10 and forced telemetry that is a pain in the ass to turn of permanently, is not at all open or user friendly. What a privacy nightmare. If they did just that, then at least I wouldn't hate them for being such hypocritical assholes. They'd just be a company whose products I don't like.
- gurkendoktor 8y ago
  Exactly. Everything that "new Microsoft" does right is targeted squarely at developers. I'll judge Microsoft by how it treats the rest of the world: dark patterns to accelerate Windows 10 adoption, using consumers as beta testers, protecting their Office monopoly above all else.
  - chrisco255 8y ago
    It's mainly only developers that use Linux. Using consumers as beta testers? Who doesn't do that or something to that effect these days? "Move fast and break things" ship fast, get feedback, and iterate, etc. These are all mantras of agile, startup culture. Meanwhile, I'm not sure I see this with their latest products at all.
    - gurkendoktor 8y ago
      I think there's a difference between shipping untested changes on an ad-backed cat picture web app, and selling a $99+ operating system that is essentially a beta version: https://www.computerworld.com/article/2878026/microsoft-to-business-dont-worry-about-windows-10-consumers-will-test-it.html https://www.computerworld.com/article/2878026/microsoft-to-b... I thought that this article was overly pessimistic until Microsoft's rings of "insiders" didn't catch the fact that the Windows 1803 update broke machines with pretty common Intel and Toshiba SSDs. All of this wouldn't bother me at all if it weren't for the MS Office monopoly that forced everyone from schoolchildren to public servants to deal with this crap. I want nothing to do with keeping this business running.
- lou1306 8y ago
  Oh yes, it would be amazing to see "Windows for Linux". Whatever that means.
  - executesorder66 8y ago
    I was originally going to say that they should open source those. But then I changed my mind to just releasing it on multiple platforms as a start. And so Windows doesn't make sense there. I should have proof read that better. Thanks for pointing it out.
  - vetinari 8y ago
    For example: a (para)-VM that's capable of running off Linux filesystem or subvolume (so you don't need to allocate separate partition or disk image for that), capable of running all the win32 binaries, and seamlessly integrating into Linux desktop and infrastructure (i.e. non AD-Kerberos would be great).
- arethuza 8y ago
  I would say the obvious barrier to releasing Office for Linux is that nobody would use it, so why bother?
  - executesorder66 8y ago
    What makes you think that nobody would use it? If Libreoffice is good enough, then why doesn't everybody use it instead of Office?
  - vetinari 8y ago
    If they released Office for Linux, (preferably flatpack-ed), that respects privacy and works offline, I would be among the first to purchase it.
- whywhywhywhy 8y ago
  > Office for Linux If they honestly released a top notch version of Office for Linux would you, in 2018 where most have switched to Google Docs or other web based office tools actually use it? I very much doubt it. I feel you're just reeling these things off as some burden of work you want them to toil away at as a debt you expect them to pay to the Linux community.
  - executesorder66 8y ago
    99% of the people I know use MS Office. Maybe 20% use google Docs but not as their main office suite. If they did release Office for Linux, I'd use it for work, since everyone uses it there. > I feel you're just reeling these things off as some burden of work you want them to toil away at as a debt you expect them to pay to the Linux community. I don't think they owe anyone anything. I'm just saying if they claim to love open source or Linux, then they need to prove it.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
- pluma 8y ago
  I know you're being facetious, but Office 365 is currently being rewritten in JavaScript: https://twitter.com/thelarkinn/status/1006746626617008128 https://twitter.com/thelarkinn/status/1006746626617008128 So the online version of Office 365 and the desktop version and the mobile apps will share a lot of the same code. This would also make it far easier to deliver desktop apps for Linux should they decide it's worth it. They've also worked together with Linux projects to make the Windows Subsystem for Linux a thing (so you can now actually "install Ubuntu" from the Windows app store). The vendor lock-in company you're thinking of is now called Apple, not Microsoft.
merinowool 8y ago
They have changed for worst. When I upgraded my PC recently my retail Windows deactivated and it took me few days of talking to "support" to re-activate it. They were treating me like a potential thief and I had to even show them invoices that I have indeed purchased new motherboard. Another one - I purchased Visual Studio 2015 just before they released 2017. They didn't want to give me a refund nor upgrade deal. Oh and you cannot turn off spying in their Windows 10.
vetinari 8y ago
They have spend decades indoctrinating their users, that command line is baaad... and now it is a good thing, that they support linux binaries in windows command line? I will believe they changed, when they release their crown jewels (especially Office) for Linux as a first-class release (i.e. not ala IE for Solaris or WMP for HPUX).

eklavyaa 8y ago

they have definitely changed, they have re-aligned themselves with what matter today. There earnings has just surpassed $100 billions which is the direct effect of their re prioritizing the product lines and philosophy. https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/jul/19/microsoft-earnings-cloud-services-revenue https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/jul/19/microsoft...

baybal2 8y ago
Going IBM? If so, yes