4 ms·

I know that Russia will never extradite them, and so does Mueller.

civilitty 8y ago
Well then, you should also know that these indictments were filed under oath by Mueller and his team, under the penalty of disbarment and literal criminal charges. You would also know that these indictments would be relevant to any future charges of conspiracy (the thing Trump is accused of) and would be open to challenge by any relevant defendant, regardless of whether they were Russian or not, right? You see, that's how a system based on law and order works. Oh and did I mention, Mueller and the vast majority of his team are career Republicans, were appointed by Republicans, and gave up multi-million dollar a year jobs to do this? You know, the DEEP STATE.
- downandout 8y ago
  Well then, you should also know that these indictments were filed under oath by Mueller and his team, under the penalty of disbarment and literal criminal charges They didn't lie, they don't have to. Everything in this indictment may be what they believe happened. But these are broad strokes. It looks like any of these allegations would be difficult or impossible to prove beyond a reasonable doubt. Grand juries indict based on probable cause, which an entirely different (and far lower) standard. They have probable cause if a credible witness, such as an FBI agent, simply tells them that they believe something happened.
  - civilitty 8y ago
    You're kidding, right? You can't possibly be this thick. The first set of indictments against Russians involved in the social media manipulation campaign have lawyers actively representing them in US courts while they hide in Russia. How the fuck is Mueller and his team going to lie when they know that their adversary is a nation-state with essentially unlimited resource, one that has already hired half a dozen American lawyers to slow down the process?
    - throwawayou812 8y ago
      How the fuck is Mueller and his team going to lie The comment you are replying to specifically says that they didn't lie, and didn't have to. This and your other comments seem to imply that you have some sort of angry agenda here. I'm new to commenting here, but I've been lurking for a long time and your goals here seem to be in conflict with the spirit of HN. One person pointed out some facts that you seem to not like, and you basically screamed and didn't even read the comment you were replying to. Personally, I don't like Trump. But you cannot deny that none of the people in this indictment face any risk of being arrested, which means the allegations in this specific indictment will never be challenged or proven.
      - civilitty 8y ago
        > The comment you are replying to specifically says that they didn't lie, and didn't have to. They strongly implied that Mueller probably lied because they didn't have to tell the truth and no one could prove it. > This and your other comments seem to imply that you have some sort of angry agenda here. I do have an agenda: Support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic. Unlike most natural born Americans, I take my Oath of Allegiance very seriously. > One person pointed out some facts that you seem to not like, and you basically screamed and didn't even read the comment you were replying to. Bingo: I don't like facts that are completely disconnected from reality. By definition, they're not facts. If screaming means rejecting abject bullshit, I'll die happy. > But you cannot deny that none of the people in this indictment face any risk of being arrested, which means the allegations in this specific indictment will never be challenged or proven. The first group of Russians that were indicted for social media manipulation have lawyers defending them in court despite the fact that there is zero chance of extradition. I don't know what your definition of "never" is, but it can't possibly overlap with the English cognate.
        throwawayou812 8y ago
        They strongly implied that Mueller probably lied because they didn't have to tell the truth and no one could prove it. The comment literally says: "They didn't lie, they don't have to. Everything in this indictment may be what they believe happened". How is that ambiguous in any way? By definition, they're not facts. Russia does not extradite its own citizens to the US. That seems to be an undisputed fact. It's also a fact that the people named in this indictment - the indictment being discussed in this thread and the only people relevant to these comments - are Russian citizens. Accordingly, there is a 0% chance that these people will see the inside of a courtroom to litigate these charges.

Well then, you should also know that these indictments were filed under oath by Mueller and his team, under the penalty of disbarment and literal criminal charges. You would also know that these indictments would be relevant to any future charges of conspiracy (the thing Trump is accused of) and would be open to challenge by any relevant defendant, regardless of whether they were Russian or not, right? You see, that's how a system based on law and order works. Oh and did I mention, Mueller and the vast majority of his team are career Republicans, were appointed by Republicans, and gave up multi-million dollar a year jobs to do this? You know, the DEEP STATE.

downandout 8y ago
Well then, you should also know that these indictments were filed under oath by Mueller and his team, under the penalty of disbarment and literal criminal charges They didn't lie, they don't have to. Everything in this indictment may be what they believe happened. But these are broad strokes. It looks like any of these allegations would be difficult or impossible to prove beyond a reasonable doubt. Grand juries indict based on probable cause, which an entirely different (and far lower) standard. They have probable cause if a credible witness, such as an FBI agent, simply tells them that they believe something happened.
- civilitty 8y ago
  You're kidding, right? You can't possibly be this thick. The first set of indictments against Russians involved in the social media manipulation campaign have lawyers actively representing them in US courts while they hide in Russia. How the fuck is Mueller and his team going to lie when they know that their adversary is a nation-state with essentially unlimited resource, one that has already hired half a dozen American lawyers to slow down the process?
  - throwawayou812 8y ago
    How the fuck is Mueller and his team going to lie The comment you are replying to specifically says that they didn't lie, and didn't have to. This and your other comments seem to imply that you have some sort of angry agenda here. I'm new to commenting here, but I've been lurking for a long time and your goals here seem to be in conflict with the spirit of HN. One person pointed out some facts that you seem to not like, and you basically screamed and didn't even read the comment you were replying to. Personally, I don't like Trump. But you cannot deny that none of the people in this indictment face any risk of being arrested, which means the allegations in this specific indictment will never be challenged or proven.
    - civilitty 8y ago
      > The comment you are replying to specifically says that they didn't lie, and didn't have to. They strongly implied that Mueller probably lied because they didn't have to tell the truth and no one could prove it. > This and your other comments seem to imply that you have some sort of angry agenda here. I do have an agenda: Support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic. Unlike most natural born Americans, I take my Oath of Allegiance very seriously. > One person pointed out some facts that you seem to not like, and you basically screamed and didn't even read the comment you were replying to. Bingo: I don't like facts that are completely disconnected from reality. By definition, they're not facts. If screaming means rejecting abject bullshit, I'll die happy. > But you cannot deny that none of the people in this indictment face any risk of being arrested, which means the allegations in this specific indictment will never be challenged or proven. The first group of Russians that were indicted for social media manipulation have lawyers defending them in court despite the fact that there is zero chance of extradition. I don't know what your definition of "never" is, but it can't possibly overlap with the English cognate.
      - throwawayou812 8y ago
        They strongly implied that Mueller probably lied because they didn't have to tell the truth and no one could prove it. The comment literally says: "They didn't lie, they don't have to. Everything in this indictment may be what they believe happened". How is that ambiguous in any way? By definition, they're not facts. Russia does not extradite its own citizens to the US. That seems to be an undisputed fact. It's also a fact that the people named in this indictment - the indictment being discussed in this thread and the only people relevant to these comments - are Russian citizens. Accordingly, there is a 0% chance that these people will see the inside of a courtroom to litigate these charges.