8 ms·

Americans want to be "apart"! Most people in America see high-density living as a negative. Most want a yard and a garage. The country is huge - you can fit thr

Americans want to be "apart"! Most people in America see high-density living as a negative. Most want a yard and a garage. The country is huge - you can fit three UKs into the state of Texas alone. We have the space, we have the roads, we like our yards. I have moved our family into progressively rural environments and will continue to do so until the distance to basic necessities is intolerable. In most rural environments there is no meaningful traffic so people aren't that down on being in their vehicles.

ta1234567890 8y ago
Maybe you mean American corporations and people in power love space and their cars and the money they make off of selling and developing those things? For example, LA used to have a great train network for public transportation until the automobile industry made sure to tear it down so people would be forced to drive cars. In SF/BayArea people want zoning to change so there can be more housing/apartment buildings. Who's blocking that from happening? Homeowners who think that would devalue their properties. Also, doesn't seem like people in NYC value cars or yards that much (at least not over living in NYC).
- claydavisss 8y ago
  No living in the country is actually not a vast alt-right conspiracy.
  - maccam94 8y ago
    Well, not alt right... De-urbanization was spurred by housing shortages post-WW2 and federal policy seeking to stabilize the housing market. The FHA was created to insure home loans that met a long list of requirements[1], which had biases towards increasing consumption (including cars) and racial segregation. The marketing and growth of suburbia was then promoted by various business interests that would benefit from that increased consumption[2]. The new suburban lifestyle led to the rise of modern conservatism[3]. Most (~85% [3]) of the US lives in metropolitan areas, so rural lifestyles are not typical and it would be vastly less efficient if everyone lived there rather than in cities. 1: https://marketurbanism.com/2017/09/12/financing-suburbia-how-government-mortgage-policy-determined-where-you-live/ https://marketurbanism.com/2017/09/12/financing-suburbia-how... 2: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/made-by-history/wp/2017/07/20/the-false-promise-of-homeownership/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.ed2710a026a0 https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/made-by-history/wp/2017/... 3: http://americanhistory.oxfordre.com/view/10.1093/acrefore/9780199329175.001.0001/acrefore-9780199329175-e-64 http://americanhistory.oxfordre.com/view/10.1093/acrefore/97...
- colechristensen 8y ago
  "America" doesn't consist of LA, NYC, and SF. There are a lot of people even in those places that don't want density but choose the environment because there are jobs, and there are jobs because so few people are willing to leave. (catch 22)
  - couchand 8y ago
    It's true that America isn't only New York City, Los Angeles, and San Francisco, but those three areas do make up over 10% of the population, which is nothing to sneeze at.
    - BRAlNlAC 8y ago
      While that is true, LA makes up a big portion of that "over 10%" hardly anyone in LA lives in anything remotely like high-density housing or lives there for much beyond the fantastic weather and job opportunities. Also, you don't do anything to address the parent comments point that plenty of people who live in higher-density areas would prefer to move to somewhere more rural, but can't because of life.
      - linkregister 8y ago
        100% of the my friends and family who live in New York would live nowhere else in the country in spite of the extreme costs of living in Manhattan, when they could have equal incomes elsewhere. I know it's hard for you to believe, but some people like living in high density areas.
        BRAlNlAC 8y ago
        I understand that. But at the same time I know plenty of people who live in SF who would love to move to a more rural area, but they or their spouse can't find work in their field outside of metro areas and SF is close to their rural roots. Some people don't like living in high density areas, but find themselves their out of circumstance.
      - 8y ago
didibus 8y ago
Have you lived the alternative? It's obvious people are raised to want large houses and large yards, its cultural, but given we'd know the true experience of both would we still feel that way? I've lived the big city, high density European lifestyle, I lived it in America too, and in Canada, and I've lived the American and Canadian small town life. They're both nice. The small town life is great if the community is healthy, and there is a town core that is dense of businesses and shops which you can go to and walk around. It gives you access to nature and land in an unprecedented way. And the small population means you get a feel of community and know others, and events can be hosted on peoples properties. If the town is struggling, its not that great, and can start to feel depressing and isolated. The european city style is also great, it feels like a buzzing small town, minus the access to land and nature. The sense of community, knowing your neighbors, being proud and invested in your neighborhood. Being physically active. These are all there. Similar to how you can find that in prosperous small towns too. In the end, I feel the choice between small town and European style cities is personal. If you prefer nature, enjoy quiet downtime, and peace, small town wins. If you prefer urban landscapes, a buzzing vibrant environment, and constant flux of activities and creativity, European cities would win. That said, I'd be surprised if anyone prefers the American style cities and suburbs. Its like the worst of both worlds. You get a medium sized house, big enough that maintenance is a chore, yet too small to have the space for serious house endeavors. A yard, but too small to have it be a place to enjoy nature. Its not quiet, yet also not buzzing. It lacks creativity and the feeling of community, and everywhere is hard to get too, too far to walk, too crouded to drive. That's what I think people complain about. I personally hate them with a passion.
- claydavisss 8y ago
  Yes, lived in urban environments. When I was young and single I didn't mind density and the resulting loss of personal space. Now that I am older I want as much space between me and my neighbors as possible. Short of a trip to the hospital, I have no plans on sharing a wall with a stranger ever again.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
fastball 8y ago
Did you RTFA? It's mostly about driving in cities / commuting to work, not driving across America and living in the rural countryside.
danans 8y ago
> Most people in America see high-density living as a negative. The times, and with it many people's preferences, are always changing. It's wonderful that you have found the place that suits you. Likewise, a growing number of people value higher density living, just as you do low density living.
flaque 8y ago
That's not true though. 80% of Americans live in an urban areas: https://www.census.gov/geo/reference/ua/uafacts.html https://www.census.gov/geo/reference/ua/uafacts.html
- zjaffee 8y ago
  This defines towns with ~1000 people in them with nothing else for 50 miles as an urban area.
  - adrianN 8y ago
    Then look at the number of people in urbanized areas > An urbanized area consists of densely developed territory that contains 50,000 or more people. Still 70% of the US population.

ta1234567890 8y ago

Maybe you mean American corporations and people in power love space and their cars and the money they make off of selling and developing those things? For example, LA used to have a great train network for public transportation until the automobile industry made sure to tear it down so people would be forced to drive cars. In SF/BayArea people want zoning to change so there can be more housing/apartment buildings. Who's blocking that from happening? Homeowners who think that would devalue their properties. Also, doesn't seem like people in NYC value cars or yards that much (at least not over living in NYC).

claydavisss 8y ago
No living in the country is actually not a vast alt-right conspiracy.
- maccam94 8y ago
  Well, not alt right... De-urbanization was spurred by housing shortages post-WW2 and federal policy seeking to stabilize the housing market. The FHA was created to insure home loans that met a long list of requirements[1], which had biases towards increasing consumption (including cars) and racial segregation. The marketing and growth of suburbia was then promoted by various business interests that would benefit from that increased consumption[2]. The new suburban lifestyle led to the rise of modern conservatism[3]. Most (~85% [3]) of the US lives in metropolitan areas, so rural lifestyles are not typical and it would be vastly less efficient if everyone lived there rather than in cities. 1: https://marketurbanism.com/2017/09/12/financing-suburbia-how-government-mortgage-policy-determined-where-you-live/ https://marketurbanism.com/2017/09/12/financing-suburbia-how... 2: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/made-by-history/wp/2017/07/20/the-false-promise-of-homeownership/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.ed2710a026a0 https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/made-by-history/wp/2017/... 3: http://americanhistory.oxfordre.com/view/10.1093/acrefore/9780199329175.001.0001/acrefore-9780199329175-e-64 http://americanhistory.oxfordre.com/view/10.1093/acrefore/97...
colechristensen 8y ago
"America" doesn't consist of LA, NYC, and SF. There are a lot of people even in those places that don't want density but choose the environment because there are jobs, and there are jobs because so few people are willing to leave. (catch 22)
- couchand 8y ago
  It's true that America isn't only New York City, Los Angeles, and San Francisco, but those three areas do make up over 10% of the population, which is nothing to sneeze at.
  - BRAlNlAC 8y ago
    While that is true, LA makes up a big portion of that "over 10%" hardly anyone in LA lives in anything remotely like high-density housing or lives there for much beyond the fantastic weather and job opportunities. Also, you don't do anything to address the parent comments point that plenty of people who live in higher-density areas would prefer to move to somewhere more rural, but can't because of life.
    - linkregister 8y ago
      100% of the my friends and family who live in New York would live nowhere else in the country in spite of the extreme costs of living in Manhattan, when they could have equal incomes elsewhere. I know it's hard for you to believe, but some people like living in high density areas.
      - BRAlNlAC 8y ago
        I understand that. But at the same time I know plenty of people who live in SF who would love to move to a more rural area, but they or their spouse can't find work in their field outside of metro areas and SF is close to their rural roots. Some people don't like living in high density areas, but find themselves their out of circumstance.
    - 8y ago

didibus 8y ago

Have you lived the alternative? It's obvious people are raised to want large houses and large yards, its cultural, but given we'd know the true experience of both would we still feel that way? I've lived the big city, high density European lifestyle, I lived it in America too, and in Canada, and I've lived the American and Canadian small town life. They're both nice. The small town life is great if the community is healthy, and there is a town core that is dense of businesses and shops which you can go to and walk around. It gives you access to nature and land in an unprecedented way. And the small population means you get a feel of community and know others, and events can be hosted on peoples properties. If the town is struggling, its not that great, and can start to feel depressing and isolated. The european city style is also great, it feels like a buzzing small town, minus the access to land and nature. The sense of community, knowing your neighbors, being proud and invested in your neighborhood. Being physically active. These are all there. Similar to how you can find that in prosperous small towns too. In the end, I feel the choice between small town and European style cities is personal. If you prefer nature, enjoy quiet downtime, and peace, small town wins. If you prefer urban landscapes, a buzzing vibrant environment, and constant flux of activities and creativity, European cities would win. That said, I'd be surprised if anyone prefers the American style cities and suburbs. Its like the worst of both worlds. You get a medium sized house, big enough that maintenance is a chore, yet too small to have the space for serious house endeavors. A yard, but too small to have it be a place to enjoy nature. Its not quiet, yet also not buzzing. It lacks creativity and the feeling of community, and everywhere is hard to get too, too far to walk, too crouded to drive. That's what I think people complain about. I personally hate them with a passion.

claydavisss 8y ago
Yes, lived in urban environments. When I was young and single I didn't mind density and the resulting loss of personal space. Now that I am older I want as much space between me and my neighbors as possible. Short of a trip to the hospital, I have no plans on sharing a wall with a stranger ever again.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]

fastball 8y ago

Did you RTFA? It's mostly about driving in cities / commuting to work, not driving across America and living in the rural countryside.

danans 8y ago

> Most people in America see high-density living as a negative. The times, and with it many people's preferences, are always changing. It's wonderful that you have found the place that suits you. Likewise, a growing number of people value higher density living, just as you do low density living.

flaque 8y ago

That's not true though. 80% of Americans live in an urban areas: https://www.census.gov/geo/reference/ua/uafacts.html https://www.census.gov/geo/reference/ua/uafacts.html

zjaffee 8y ago
This defines towns with ~1000 people in them with nothing else for 50 miles as an urban area.
- adrianN 8y ago
  Then look at the number of people in urbanized areas > An urbanized area consists of densely developed territory that contains 50,000 or more people. Still 70% of the US population.