6 ms·

Are Kilian Jornet's Speed Records Too Good to Be True?

55 points by gpresot 8y ago

runnr_az 8y ago
No. (At least to anyone who's followed his career.) That dude is a total class act. As a side note, the article mentions a Seb Montaz-Rosset film that features Kilian called "Downside Up." It's... maybe one of the craziest things I've ever seen. Ski mountaineering is amazing! https://vimeo.com/ondemand/downsideup https://vimeo.com/ondemand/downsideup
- DrBazza 8y ago
  Betteridge's Law of headlines.
chair6 8y ago
The dude is a freakin' machine. There's a short film (13 mins) called 'Kilian' at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7eVBrMcflDE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7eVBrMcflDE which made it into the Banff Film Festival last year. Worth a watch if you want get a better feel for how he travels and his thought process. Food for twenty hours in the mountains? Oh, I'll probably take 4 Snickers or something...
- zwp 8y ago
  Nice, thanks. What are those cute little axes that he's running? And what's going on with them at 10m50 - is that a foldout pinky rest? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7eVBrMcflDE&t=650 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7eVBrMcflDE&t=650
  - aplusbi 8y ago
    Looks like a pair of Petzl gully axes.
bosdev 8y ago
I really don't get why he doesn't just carry a reliable GPS tracker with him. Seems so much easier than arguing with people online.
- aplusbi 8y ago
  He's probably using a GPS watch which is very convenient but error prone. They'll frequently get misreads (where they briefly think you are miles away from where you actually are) and accumulate small amounts of error over time (the granularity isn't great, so sometimes it will continue to increment distance even if you are standing still). Really reliable GPS trackers are big and heavy, and for someone attempting speed records just not worth the weight. And even with reliable GPS tracker there will still be doubters who will claim the data was faked.
  - logicallee 8y ago
    How does error-prone GPS work on a technical level? Based on a description of GPS I would think it's kind of an "all or nothing" thing (no signal, or exact calculated position) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Positioning_System https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Positioning_System I just don't get how you can get "low-fi GPS". What happens exactly? Either you receive the signal or you don't, and any bounces off the ground or something will just add a couple of meters.
    - moron4hire 8y ago
      GPS satellites mostly just send out a timing signal. The receiving device then measures the differences between timing signals from the satellites it can see. This calculation is not simple, and lower power devices don't have the processing budget (or power budget, which is practically the same thing on a battery powered device) or don't have implemented as many error correction methods. For example, the signal echoing off of rock faces (or more often, buildings, for a more familiar environment), can make it look like one satellite is more than one satellite, which will obviously not give you the right location.
    - jrockway 8y ago
24gttghh 8y ago
I don't understand the desire to race as fast as possible through the natural splendor of the mountains. I feel like these speed-climbing folks are really missing out on the experience.
- mbostleman 8y ago
  I am just a weekend warrior, but my primary motivation in the mountains is continuously upping my skills and fitness to move through them faster and more efficiently. I don't feel like I'm missing an experience. To the contrary, I feel like I'm closer to the experience because much of it involves understanding the environment, yourself, the tech, and how they all work together. There are also a number of practical benefits to moving fast. For one, the longer you spend on a route, the more exposure you have to risks from all categories. So the faster you get there and back, the less likely you are to get hurt (assuming your speed is based on skill and fitness and not carelessness). Second, if there is a tangible need to get something done (like a rescue), then being able to do it quickly and safely is invaluable. As such, one of the benefits of the new social media sponsored mountain athletes like Jornet is that boundaries are pushed and we get to learn new things about what humans can do on mountains.
- EliRivers 8y ago
  For some of these people, the fact that there's natural splendour there isn't the point and isn't relevant. It's like game-grinding. Pick a new achievement - running through mountain trail X - and then grind it. Tick it off, do the next one. Whatever they're seeking is inside their heads and the setting is just a convenience. It could just as easily be a featureless 50 mile tunnel. The setting is relevant only as far as it's a recognised thing to grind and tick off.
  - adenadel 8y ago
    This is not at all how professional trail/ultra runners approach their lives. You can follow a lot of them on social media (including Kilian Jornet) see how they actually spend their days.
dnhz 8y ago
Going up to those altitudes without supplemental oxygen sounds absolutely insane to me. Studies via MRI have shown brain damage even in climbers climbing Mont Blanc (4,808.7 m (15,777 ft)). https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/brain-cells-into-thin-air/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/brain-cells-into-...
buzzdenver 8y ago
This is Outside magazine stirring the pot for no good reason. Kilian has proven dozens of times in highly competitive and controlled races that he is a notch above competitors from his generation. Also, the FKT-s he sets are not out of this world, and many of them have been broken since (Kilimanjaro and Aconcagua iirc). Anyone who has used a watch GPS enough times will know that once in a while they will just misbehave and report incorrect coordinates.
- h2j24 8y ago
  I think the article largely paints a favorable picture of Kilian.

55 points by gpresot 8y ago

No. (At least to anyone who's followed his career.) That dude is a total class act. As a side note, the article mentions a Seb Montaz-Rosset film that features Kilian called "Downside Up." It's... maybe one of the craziest things I've ever seen. Ski mountaineering is amazing! https://vimeo.com/ondemand/downsideup https://vimeo.com/ondemand/downsideup

DrBazza 8y ago
Betteridge's Law of headlines.

chair6 8y ago

The dude is a freakin' machine. There's a short film (13 mins) called 'Kilian' at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7eVBrMcflDE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7eVBrMcflDE which made it into the Banff Film Festival last year. Worth a watch if you want get a better feel for how he travels and his thought process. Food for twenty hours in the mountains? Oh, I'll probably take 4 Snickers or something...

zwp 8y ago
Nice, thanks. What are those cute little axes that he's running? And what's going on with them at 10m50 - is that a foldout pinky rest? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7eVBrMcflDE&t=650 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7eVBrMcflDE&t=650
- aplusbi 8y ago
  Looks like a pair of Petzl gully axes.

bosdev 8y ago

I really don't get why he doesn't just carry a reliable GPS tracker with him. Seems so much easier than arguing with people online.

aplusbi 8y ago
He's probably using a GPS watch which is very convenient but error prone. They'll frequently get misreads (where they briefly think you are miles away from where you actually are) and accumulate small amounts of error over time (the granularity isn't great, so sometimes it will continue to increment distance even if you are standing still). Really reliable GPS trackers are big and heavy, and for someone attempting speed records just not worth the weight. And even with reliable GPS tracker there will still be doubters who will claim the data was faked.
- logicallee 8y ago
  How does error-prone GPS work on a technical level? Based on a description of GPS I would think it's kind of an "all or nothing" thing (no signal, or exact calculated position) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Positioning_System https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Positioning_System I just don't get how you can get "low-fi GPS". What happens exactly? Either you receive the signal or you don't, and any bounces off the ground or something will just add a couple of meters.
  - moron4hire 8y ago
    GPS satellites mostly just send out a timing signal. The receiving device then measures the differences between timing signals from the satellites it can see. This calculation is not simple, and lower power devices don't have the processing budget (or power budget, which is practically the same thing on a battery powered device) or don't have implemented as many error correction methods. For example, the signal echoing off of rock faces (or more often, buildings, for a more familiar environment), can make it look like one satellite is more than one satellite, which will obviously not give you the right location.
  - jrockway 8y ago

24gttghh 8y ago

I don't understand the desire to race as fast as possible through the natural splendor of the mountains. I feel like these speed-climbing folks are really missing out on the experience.

mbostleman 8y ago
I am just a weekend warrior, but my primary motivation in the mountains is continuously upping my skills and fitness to move through them faster and more efficiently. I don't feel like I'm missing an experience. To the contrary, I feel like I'm closer to the experience because much of it involves understanding the environment, yourself, the tech, and how they all work together. There are also a number of practical benefits to moving fast. For one, the longer you spend on a route, the more exposure you have to risks from all categories. So the faster you get there and back, the less likely you are to get hurt (assuming your speed is based on skill and fitness and not carelessness). Second, if there is a tangible need to get something done (like a rescue), then being able to do it quickly and safely is invaluable. As such, one of the benefits of the new social media sponsored mountain athletes like Jornet is that boundaries are pushed and we get to learn new things about what humans can do on mountains.
EliRivers 8y ago
For some of these people, the fact that there's natural splendour there isn't the point and isn't relevant. It's like game-grinding. Pick a new achievement - running through mountain trail X - and then grind it. Tick it off, do the next one. Whatever they're seeking is inside their heads and the setting is just a convenience. It could just as easily be a featureless 50 mile tunnel. The setting is relevant only as far as it's a recognised thing to grind and tick off.
- adenadel 8y ago
  This is not at all how professional trail/ultra runners approach their lives. You can follow a lot of them on social media (including Kilian Jornet) see how they actually spend their days.

dnhz 8y ago

Going up to those altitudes without supplemental oxygen sounds absolutely insane to me. Studies via MRI have shown brain damage even in climbers climbing Mont Blanc (4,808.7 m (15,777 ft)). https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/brain-cells-into-thin-air/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/brain-cells-into-...

buzzdenver 8y ago

This is Outside magazine stirring the pot for no good reason. Kilian has proven dozens of times in highly competitive and controlled races that he is a notch above competitors from his generation. Also, the FKT-s he sets are not out of this world, and many of them have been broken since (Kilimanjaro and Aconcagua iirc). Anyone who has used a watch GPS enough times will know that once in a while they will just misbehave and report incorrect coordinates.

h2j24 8y ago
I think the article largely paints a favorable picture of Kilian.