4 ms·

I agree. What is wrong with creating new protocols?

by sp4c3m0nk3y 8y ago

abricot 8y ago
Anything outside of port 80/443 will be blocked at some point.
- nineteen999 8y ago
  Blocked by who? Are you talking within some specific context, eg. corporate networks? Because HTTP/HTTPS are both TCP based protocols with some very limiting characteristics for many applications. There are a whole lot of applications out there in widespread use that depend on UDP at the very least, eg. most multiplayer network games, just to use the simplest and most common example I can think of. Not everything can (or should) be stuffed into a HTTP transaction.
  - gsich 8y ago
    Yes, the blocking problem mostly affects corporate networks or shady wlan access points. Game developers don't really have a problem with using UDP/TCP on random ports.
    - nineteen999 8y ago
      Sure, but there's a bit of a stretch from there to the parent posters claim "anything outside of port 80/443 will be blocked at some point" as a justification not to develop new, non-HTTP based protocols.
      - gsich 8y ago
        Of course, it's just a sloppy excuse.
- ori_b 8y ago
  Only if nobody uses those ports. I want as much as possible to break for people who block those ports, and engage in other user-hostile actions.
figgis 8y ago
Familiarity. I can either work with a protocol that has been around, in some way shape or form, for almost 30 years. That has matured, has a myriad of information relating to edge cases, is familiar to new and old developers, and is quick to develop for. Or I can create my own protocol which has none of those benefits besides possibly quick development.
- ori_b 8y ago
  > Familiarity. I can either work with a protocol that has been around, in some way shape or form, for almost 30 years. Yeah, using TCP directly is great, isn't it?
gsich 8y ago
Stupid people block stuff. That's why (somewhat less stupid) people try to tunnel everything via HTTP.
zaarn 8y ago
Middleboxes tend to not play well with non-HTTP content these days. Not long ago this was also the case for non-UDP/TCP protocols, this is even more cemented. The only times I know that non-HTTP works is video games and that is sorta hit-or-miss on one ISP I frequent, they block protocols they don't know for "security". Making it HTTPS is an easy way to get around any potential firewall problems and have it work easily in corporate settings.

I agree. What is wrong with creating new protocols?

abricot 8y ago

Anything outside of port 80/443 will be blocked at some point.

nineteen999 8y ago
Blocked by who? Are you talking within some specific context, eg. corporate networks? Because HTTP/HTTPS are both TCP based protocols with some very limiting characteristics for many applications. There are a whole lot of applications out there in widespread use that depend on UDP at the very least, eg. most multiplayer network games, just to use the simplest and most common example I can think of. Not everything can (or should) be stuffed into a HTTP transaction.
- gsich 8y ago
  Yes, the blocking problem mostly affects corporate networks or shady wlan access points. Game developers don't really have a problem with using UDP/TCP on random ports.
  - nineteen999 8y ago
    Sure, but there's a bit of a stretch from there to the parent posters claim "anything outside of port 80/443 will be blocked at some point" as a justification not to develop new, non-HTTP based protocols.
    - gsich 8y ago
      Of course, it's just a sloppy excuse.
ori_b 8y ago
Only if nobody uses those ports. I want as much as possible to break for people who block those ports, and engage in other user-hostile actions.

figgis 8y ago

Familiarity. I can either work with a protocol that has been around, in some way shape or form, for almost 30 years. That has matured, has a myriad of information relating to edge cases, is familiar to new and old developers, and is quick to develop for. Or I can create my own protocol which has none of those benefits besides possibly quick development.

ori_b 8y ago
> Familiarity. I can either work with a protocol that has been around, in some way shape or form, for almost 30 years. Yeah, using TCP directly is great, isn't it?

gsich 8y ago

Stupid people block stuff. That's why (somewhat less stupid) people try to tunnel everything via HTTP.

zaarn 8y ago

Middleboxes tend to not play well with non-HTTP content these days. Not long ago this was also the case for non-UDP/TCP protocols, this is even more cemented. The only times I know that non-HTTP works is video games and that is sorta hit-or-miss on one ISP I frequent, they block protocols they don't know for "security". Making it HTTPS is an easy way to get around any potential firewall problems and have it work easily in corporate settings.