5 ms·

Do I need to pay for Java now?

62 points by nfrankel 8y ago

darkky3456 8y ago
Hacking and programming by the dark web has been setting pace for years now and we surely are not ready to relent until we meet your hacking and programing needs as a firm. We aim to digitalize the world to the satisfaction and happiness of all. Kindly contact our main officer for all your HACKING and PROGRAMING services which may include <>Gmail, yahoomail, protonmail, electronic mail and other mail types hacking. <>Facebook, whatsapp, instagram, blackberry messenger,snapchat hacking. <>Iphone, icloud and mackbook hacking. <> CCTV hacking <> phone hacking and tracing [we can get text messages and redirect a copy of voice calls to a mail or phone,that would be a good one to stalk on your suspicious or cheating spouse] <>personal and office computer hacking <> school website hacking and grade changing/upgrading. <>Game and betting sites hacking[before and after game] <> bank details clearing <>criminal record clearing <> Bitcoin hacking <>Western Union hacking <> shopping website hacking <> we do virtually anything you want, money back guaranteed. contact our officer on cipherhacker1@GMAIL.COM motto : not stopping until we digitalize all
mr_overalls 8y ago
Does anyone have an idea of whether C#/.NET are gaining ground on Java in the enterprise?
fcurts 8y ago
The conclusions that the article draws in "What does the new release train mean to my company?" are completely wrong. Starting with Java 11, Oracle JDK is no longer free for commercial use, not even for a single day. However, as long as people are OK with GPL v2 + Classpath Exception (which is more permissive than it sounds) and don't need support from Oracle, they can just move to OpenJDK, which is built from the exact same codebase. Shoutout to https://adoptopenjdk.net https://adoptopenjdk.net, which plans to ship LTS releases of OpenJDK. I believe this will be crucial for keeping the Java ecosystem healthy.
- Justsignedup 8y ago
  Does OpenJDK have the same optimizations as the official JDK? I thought OpenJDK doesn't have java's JIT...
  - the_why_of_y 8y ago
    Where did you get that idea? The differentiation between OpenJDK and Oracle JDK happens of course in the truly important part of the library: font rendering. https://technfun.wordpress.com/2013/01/18/last-difference-openjdk-oracle-jdk/ https://technfun.wordpress.com/2013/01/18/last-difference-op...
    - bullen 8y ago
      There are alot more stuff that OpenJDK does not have. Try running it on ARM for example, it's like 4 times as slow, unusable.
      - the_why_of_y 8y ago
        There's a full C1+C2 port to ARMv8 here: http://openjdk.java.net/projects/aarch64-port/ http://openjdk.java.net/projects/aarch64-port/ Are you sure it's 4 times as slow? I'd be surprised if that is the case, but don't have the hardware to check.
        fcurts 8y ago
        I'd be surprised if the exact same codebase (as of Java 11) was 4x slower just because it's called OpenJDK.
        jerven 8y ago
        Yes, in this case it is not the exact same codebase. There are actually a number of ARM backends in OpenJDK. If i recall there is an A ARMv5/6 one from the community and Oracle open sourced one for the same or for v7. And then the modern AArch64 one.
znpy 8y ago
TL;DR: Yes. You have to pay for Java now. Quoting the article: «Oracle JDKs may only be used in production if you buy the commercial support.» The alternative is using OpenJDK in production. We'll have to see how much the Oracle JDK and OpenJDK will diverge.
- fcurts 8y ago
  > TL;DR: Yes. You have to pay for Java now. You have to pay for Oracle JDK but not for OpenJDK, which is just as good, except for a less business-friendly license, no commercial support, and no LTS builds straight from Oracle (instead you need to put your bets on adoptopenjdk.net). > Quoting the article: «Oracle JDKs may only be used in production if you buy the commercial support.» Yes, but the author forgets about this in the "What does the new release train mean to my company?" section and draws completely wrong conclusions. > The alternative is using OpenJDK in production. We'll have to see how much the Oracle JDK and OpenJDK will diverge. They will be identical. All of Oracle's JDK work, even LTS related work, will go into the OpenJDK repo.
  - the_why_of_y 8y ago
    How is a license that puts no restrictions on usage "less business-friendly"? ... Oh I see, Oracle's strategy here is to monetize GPL FUD.
    - fcurts 8y ago
      > How is a license that puts no restrictions on usage "less business-friendly"? Use of GPL licensed software is heavily restricted in many corporations, whether or not it has the Classpath Exception. Among other things, it's hard to verify/enforce that projects only link against files that have the Classpath Exception.
    - Schumer 8y ago
      You realize they own Java and are it's biggest contributors?
  - znpy 8y ago
bullen 8y ago
Will you have to pay for the current Java 8u181 in prod? I'm backing up the latest Java 8 for all platforms now. Goodbye Oracle, Java 8 is the final Java, time to roll up the sleeves and build our own VM language!
- fcurts 8y ago
  You won't have to pay for using Oracle JDK 8u181 in prod, and you won't have to pay for using OpenJDK 11 and higher in prod. You will have to pay for using Oracle JDK 11 and higher in prod, which is built from the exact same codebase as OpenJDK 11 but offers commercial support and long-term support (LTS) releases. https://adoptopenjdk.net https://adoptopenjdk.net plans to ship LTS releases of OpenJDK for free.
  - bullen 8y ago
    Ok, thanks! But I'm pretty sure the superior performance of the closed source Oracle JVM will never be open-sourced. It's the only value Oracle has left, and they know they cannot exploit it, even if this is a nice try. Of the 2 million Java coders there are atleast 1% that care enough to look at building a 100% open-source VM language. I hope James Gosling is building exactly that at Amazon.
    - fcurts 8y ago
      As of 11, a "closed source Oracle JVM" won't exist anymore, and there won't be any performance difference between Oracle JDK and OpenJDK.
      - bullen 8y ago
        If so my guess is Oracle will be gone within 10 years.
- mesozoic 8y ago
  Not until theres a critical security vulnerability where you must upgrade.
IloveHN84 8y ago
If openjdk doesn't make it's own JavaFX builds, it's time to move on to other languages, far better than Java on licensing base..
krob 8y ago
I wonder how this is going to play with JetBrains. If they're going to say F java and focus on a different direction. This is a pretty big deal moving forward. Seems like the community will now need to focus a lot of effort into the open jdk. This effectively happened with mysql & oracle. This company likes acquiring open source tech and then turning it into a commercial tech.

62 points by nfrankel 8y ago

Hacking and programming by the dark web has been setting pace for years now and we surely are not ready to relent until we meet your hacking and programing needs as a firm. We aim to digitalize the world to the satisfaction and happiness of all. Kindly contact our main officer for all your HACKING and PROGRAMING services which may include <>Gmail, yahoomail, protonmail, electronic mail and other mail types hacking. <>Facebook, whatsapp, instagram, blackberry messenger,snapchat hacking. <>Iphone, icloud and mackbook hacking. <> CCTV hacking <> phone hacking and tracing [we can get text messages and redirect a copy of voice calls to a mail or phone,that would be a good one to stalk on your suspicious or cheating spouse] <>personal and office computer hacking <> school website hacking and grade changing/upgrading. <>Game and betting sites hacking[before and after game] <> bank details clearing <>criminal record clearing <> Bitcoin hacking <>Western Union hacking <> shopping website hacking <> we do virtually anything you want, money back guaranteed. contact our officer on cipherhacker1@GMAIL.COM motto : not stopping until we digitalize all

mr_overalls 8y ago

Does anyone have an idea of whether C#/.NET are gaining ground on Java in the enterprise?

fcurts 8y ago

The conclusions that the article draws in "What does the new release train mean to my company?" are completely wrong. Starting with Java 11, Oracle JDK is no longer free for commercial use, not even for a single day. However, as long as people are OK with GPL v2 + Classpath Exception (which is more permissive than it sounds) and don't need support from Oracle, they can just move to OpenJDK, which is built from the exact same codebase. Shoutout to https://adoptopenjdk.net https://adoptopenjdk.net, which plans to ship LTS releases of OpenJDK. I believe this will be crucial for keeping the Java ecosystem healthy.

Justsignedup 8y ago
Does OpenJDK have the same optimizations as the official JDK? I thought OpenJDK doesn't have java's JIT...
- the_why_of_y 8y ago
  Where did you get that idea? The differentiation between OpenJDK and Oracle JDK happens of course in the truly important part of the library: font rendering. https://technfun.wordpress.com/2013/01/18/last-difference-openjdk-oracle-jdk/ https://technfun.wordpress.com/2013/01/18/last-difference-op...
  - bullen 8y ago
    There are alot more stuff that OpenJDK does not have. Try running it on ARM for example, it's like 4 times as slow, unusable.
    - the_why_of_y 8y ago
      There's a full C1+C2 port to ARMv8 here: http://openjdk.java.net/projects/aarch64-port/ http://openjdk.java.net/projects/aarch64-port/ Are you sure it's 4 times as slow? I'd be surprised if that is the case, but don't have the hardware to check.
      - fcurts 8y ago
        I'd be surprised if the exact same codebase (as of Java 11) was 4x slower just because it's called OpenJDK.
        jerven 8y ago
        Yes, in this case it is not the exact same codebase. There are actually a number of ARM backends in OpenJDK. If i recall there is an A ARMv5/6 one from the community and Oracle open sourced one for the same or for v7. And then the modern AArch64 one.

znpy 8y ago

TL;DR: Yes. You have to pay for Java now. Quoting the article: «Oracle JDKs may only be used in production if you buy the commercial support.» The alternative is using OpenJDK in production. We'll have to see how much the Oracle JDK and OpenJDK will diverge.

fcurts 8y ago
> TL;DR: Yes. You have to pay for Java now. You have to pay for Oracle JDK but not for OpenJDK, which is just as good, except for a less business-friendly license, no commercial support, and no LTS builds straight from Oracle (instead you need to put your bets on adoptopenjdk.net). > Quoting the article: «Oracle JDKs may only be used in production if you buy the commercial support.» Yes, but the author forgets about this in the "What does the new release train mean to my company?" section and draws completely wrong conclusions. > The alternative is using OpenJDK in production. We'll have to see how much the Oracle JDK and OpenJDK will diverge. They will be identical. All of Oracle's JDK work, even LTS related work, will go into the OpenJDK repo.
- the_why_of_y 8y ago
  How is a license that puts no restrictions on usage "less business-friendly"? ... Oh I see, Oracle's strategy here is to monetize GPL FUD.
  - fcurts 8y ago
    > How is a license that puts no restrictions on usage "less business-friendly"? Use of GPL licensed software is heavily restricted in many corporations, whether or not it has the Classpath Exception. Among other things, it's hard to verify/enforce that projects only link against files that have the Classpath Exception.
  - Schumer 8y ago
    You realize they own Java and are it's biggest contributors?
- znpy 8y ago

bullen 8y ago

Will you have to pay for the current Java 8u181 in prod? I'm backing up the latest Java 8 for all platforms now. Goodbye Oracle, Java 8 is the final Java, time to roll up the sleeves and build our own VM language!

fcurts 8y ago
You won't have to pay for using Oracle JDK 8u181 in prod, and you won't have to pay for using OpenJDK 11 and higher in prod. You will have to pay for using Oracle JDK 11 and higher in prod, which is built from the exact same codebase as OpenJDK 11 but offers commercial support and long-term support (LTS) releases. https://adoptopenjdk.net https://adoptopenjdk.net plans to ship LTS releases of OpenJDK for free.
- bullen 8y ago
  Ok, thanks! But I'm pretty sure the superior performance of the closed source Oracle JVM will never be open-sourced. It's the only value Oracle has left, and they know they cannot exploit it, even if this is a nice try. Of the 2 million Java coders there are atleast 1% that care enough to look at building a 100% open-source VM language. I hope James Gosling is building exactly that at Amazon.
  - fcurts 8y ago
    As of 11, a "closed source Oracle JVM" won't exist anymore, and there won't be any performance difference between Oracle JDK and OpenJDK.
    - bullen 8y ago
      If so my guess is Oracle will be gone within 10 years.
mesozoic 8y ago
Not until theres a critical security vulnerability where you must upgrade.

IloveHN84 8y ago

If openjdk doesn't make it's own JavaFX builds, it's time to move on to other languages, far better than Java on licensing base..

krob 8y ago

I wonder how this is going to play with JetBrains. If they're going to say F java and focus on a different direction. This is a pretty big deal moving forward. Seems like the community will now need to focus a lot of effort into the open jdk. This effectively happened with mysql & oracle. This company likes acquiring open source tech and then turning it into a commercial tech.