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If you're looking to move to the Bay area, you should also look at moving to the like Lincoln, NE or Omaha, NE or Kansas City. A lot more so if you have a famil

If you're looking to move to the Bay area, you should also look at moving to the like Lincoln, NE or Omaha, NE or Kansas City. A lot more so if you have a family. I know that sounds strange, but.... The Midwest is cheap. Albeit harder than the past, it is still possible and common in the Midwest to live a middle-class-ish lifestyle on a single income. A two bedroom apartment can be less than $500 a month. I have friends with $830/month mortgage payments on their house. The Internet is solid in the Midwest too, unless you're actually out on a farm. In the cities you can get Gigabit up/down for $90 a month. Most places don't have Google Fiber, but other fiber companies have sprung up. The majority of my tech friends have fiber in to their walls for Internet. It is very much a culture of YIMBY right now too. Driverless shuttles? Yeah sure. New apartment building? Yeah sure. New tech startups? Yeah sure. Lastly, (this is a hot topic issue so I am reluctant to put it in, but it is something that comes up from my friends on the west coast) the states are red states, but the cities are blue. As an example, Omaha is blue enough that it split the electoral vote of Nebraska to Obama in the past. (NE is a state that can split its electoral vote rather than winner-takes-all.) Yes it is true that if you start driving out in to the country you will see "Trump" painted on to barns and such, but in the cities you don't.

wumpus 8y ago
I live in the Bay Area because of the dense concentration of smart people and ease of joining/starting startups. There's more to tech than fast Internet.
- aquova 8y ago
  Believe it or not there are smart people outside of the Bay area, even out in the Midwest. Over the last few years there’s been a big increase in startups out here the last few years, partially driven by the high cost of living in the traditional tech regions.
  - decacorn 8y ago
    Believe it or not, the most savvy investors in the nation are heavily biased to investing primarily within Silicon Valley. As soon as large tech giants move to the Midwest, sure the trend might start. No big tech companies, no reason for tech workers to move.
  - greglindahl 8y ago
    Believe it or not, I have 2 close relatives who are techies living in the Midwest. They like it there, and we have different opinions about where we'd prefer to live. Sorry if my straightforward comment about what I like in the Bay area came across as either an attack on the Midwest, or ignorance of the Midwest. It wasn't intended to be either.
  - chaostheory 8y ago
    Yes, they are concentrated in the Chicago metro. The cost of living there is not much better than the Bay Area minus the advantages that the Bay Area offers. The metros around Austin and Portland are a better alternative imo.
- JohnCrane 8y ago
  aka "i'm a smug libturd and think i'm better than everyone else"
JustSomeNobody 8y ago
Big, gigantic tornadoes. I live in florida and we can see our big nasty storms coming for weeks. The "alley" doesn't come with that feature.
hunter23 8y ago
The midwest is an underrated area of the US but unfortunately the lack of diversity makes it hard for me to live there. It's a hard area for certain cultures to live in. edit: not sure why I'm downvoted as my wife lived in the midwest and it was hard for her to practice her culture. She has fond memories of the area but knows how unpractical it was for her parents. Her family had to make a monthly 1.5 hour drive into Chicago to find Indian groceries, she got picked incessantly for being the only Indian kid in school, and her parents couldn't eat out because there so few options with vegetarian food. It's just hard living in a place where so few people have a similar skin tone, religion, or culture as you which is why most Indians move out of the midwest. People make fun of the racism of the South, but I grew up in a diverse metro in the South and didn't have to deal with any of this since about 25% of my school was Asian. Obviously, Chicago and some of the other large metros are ok. I'm just pointing out that in all these threads there is this argument to "move somewhere else" but there are huge regions of the country many have to rule out because they are ethnic minorities.
- codeafin 8y ago
  It is true, I live in one of those cities (Omaha) at a tech startup, it's been tiring these last 4 years sitting next to people who openly talk and try to 'educate' peers about how immigrants kill people, vaccines cause cancer, and climate change is made up from dodgy scientist readings. Education could be a lot better here.
- NotQuantum 8y ago
  As someone from Kansas, absolutely an issue. It's probably 90% white, there's no culture in Kansas City, just a bunch of hipsters with clear framed glasses. When I interned for Garmin a few years back, they had intern events to hype us up about living in Kansas City. It's essentially a cultural wasteland, and tech jobs are few and far between. The startup scene there is a joke too, they suck up new college grads too stupid to realize they can work elsewhere and pay them below market.
  - saosebastiao 8y ago
    There's plenty of culture in Kansas, just like everywhere else in the world. The problem is homogeneity of culture, not the lack of it.
dionidium 8y ago
> It is very much a culture of YIMBY right now too. Driverless shuttles? Yeah sure. New apartment building? Yeah sure. New tech startups? Yeah sure. Nodded in affirmation to everything but this. NIMBYism is everywhere. In my hometown of St. Louis, people oppose everything for the same two lame reasons every time: traffic and parking. They oppose buildings in busy areas, in blighted areas, in single-family areas, in business districts, in areas that have been contracting for five decades -- everywhere. And the mantra is always, "but what about traffic and parking?"
saosebastiao 8y ago
The midwest is underrated, but even though they have the right mentality there are still major barriers to this idea: 1) People almost universally live close to where they grew up. Trying to get someone whose family lives in California to move to the Midwest is inherently harder than getting a Midwesterner living in SV to move back. 2) Jobs don't just shift, and they definitely don't do it quickly. There are a multitude of reasons why it is rational for companies to pay more to live in a more expensive area. What company would move across the country in order to pay more reasonable wages if it meant they lost nearly all connection to suppliers or customers or industry associations or academic/research relationships? 3) For many people, it isn't okay to just pack up and leave if you don't like it. Don't like slavery? Move north! I know that is an extreme example of the mentality, but we are still talking about the wealth and prosperity of an entire generation being swept away by the greed of another generation. Why shouldn't we fight back?
almost_usual 8y ago
I feel like people view California sometimes as an entirely blue state which is absolutely false. If you go anywhere outside of a metropolitan area you are in Red country. Go to South Lake Tahoe and tell me you don't see Trump signs. Rural is rural, I went to a local bar West of Sacramento and felt like I was in my home town in nowhere Illinois.
- dsfyu404ed 8y ago
  Blue CA makes all the decisions that affect the state. It's a blue state.
  - almost_usual 8y ago
    If you want to never leave the Bay Area or LA/SD area yeah you're in a blue state. As soon as you take a road trip to a pretty national park be prepared to encounter plenty of Red.
    - dsfyu404ed 8y ago
      So? Why is that an issue? They have no say in how the place is run (and resent the blue part of the state for it, which is why splitting the state keeps getting proposed) so unless seeing a Trump bumper sticker ruins your day it doesn't really affect anything.
      - almost_usual 8y ago
        I'm relating to the original post, the commenter said "Omaha is blue but everything outside is red". This is also true in California. Metropolitan areas are going to be blue, rural areas are red. > Unless seeing a Trump bumper sticker ruins your day it doesn't really affect anything No, but walking into a bar or restaurant with my girlfriend and having everyone there stare at you and treat you differently is a thing. Only saying that you're not entering some blue paradise in California.
        8y ago
deleted 8y ago
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p3llin0r3 8y ago
Depends on what you want. I've lived in the Midwest my entire life, from a tiny town of 2,000 people to Chicago Illinois. I'm moving out to Portland in less than a month. I REALLY dislike the Midwest due to it's lack of natural beauty, epidemic of poor civil engineering and city design, and hostile climate. > If you're looking to move to the Bay area, you should also look at moving to the like Lincoln, NE or Omaha, NE or Kansas City. A lot more so if you have a family. I know that sounds strange, but.... Comparing the job market of Lincoln, Omaha, or KC to the Bay Area is very flawed. The tech-hubs are a real thing, and there are advantages to working in an office that make remote work undesirable. ( More likely to be promoted, having a social life, etc. ) Even in cities like Portland, you look around at the jobs being offered and see MOSTLY lame fintech and insurance company jobs. Additionally, you are away from the critical mass of highly educated and motivated developers. Even here in Chicago, you meet a LOT of the b-team. > The Midwest is cheap. Albeit harder than the past, it is still possible and common in the Midwest to live a middle-class-ish lifestyle on a single income. A two bedroom apartment can be less than $500 a month. While it's true that you can get a large house for cheaper, what are you going to do while you are in these cities? They, full stop, lack the cultural and natural vibrancy of the Bay Area. Extremely homogeneous, poorly designed cities full of insurance salesmen and hicks. Brutal cold winters and sweltering, buggy summers. Not that you would want to go outside anyway, since most of these Midwestern cities have declined to invest in walkable infrastructure and instead more resemble disconnected buildings joined by huge highways. You will drive everywhere and none of it will be interesting or beautiful. ( To be fair, I hear Columbus has some nice infrastructure ) Not that you would have anywhere to drive to. The nature sucks. You can drive out of town and see some beautiful... corn fields. And flat land. Filled with bugs. Nobody has bothered to forge hiking trails because there's nothing to see. > I have friends with $830/month mortgage payments on their house. The most expensive house is the one you can't sell. And housing is not an automatically good investment like many people believe. I know from experience, a lot of my friends who bought cheap houses regret it now that they are interested in selling and NOBODY'S BUYING. > The Internet is solid in the Midwest too... True. You can do the job. If you don't mind working remote / find a good job in the Midwest, it is 100% viable to live there. > Lastly, (this is a hot topic issue so I am reluctant to put it in, but it is something that comes up from my friends on the west coast) the states are red states, but the cities are blue. Yes. This means every time you decide you want to get away from the city, you are greeted by a bunch of Trump-supporting, confederate flag waving yokels who cut the sleeves off of their shirts. Also this means that when those people want to get away from the country, guess where they go? Your city, where you have to interact with them.
abalone 8y ago
These are all very good points. I recently visited the midwestern city near where I grew up and was AMAZED, as a longtime SF resident, at the spacious cafes in gorgeous brick and timber buildings that would cost millions on open in SF. At the craft bars where liquor licensing was no problem. At the super cheap houses you could drive to in 10 minutes where the biggest cost was probably renovation. And seemingly more young, progressive-ish people out and about in the city than I remember. Diversity definitely an issue but pretty LGBT friendly and solidly blue state politics. But... This all overlooks the major draw to SF which is work. It's the center of our industry. With all that can be said about remote work, it's harder to find the right gig that way. And there is a lot to be said for the more diverse, cosmopolitan culture here.

wumpus 8y ago

I live in the Bay Area because of the dense concentration of smart people and ease of joining/starting startups. There's more to tech than fast Internet.

aquova 8y ago
Believe it or not there are smart people outside of the Bay area, even out in the Midwest. Over the last few years there’s been a big increase in startups out here the last few years, partially driven by the high cost of living in the traditional tech regions.
- decacorn 8y ago
  Believe it or not, the most savvy investors in the nation are heavily biased to investing primarily within Silicon Valley. As soon as large tech giants move to the Midwest, sure the trend might start. No big tech companies, no reason for tech workers to move.
- greglindahl 8y ago
  Believe it or not, I have 2 close relatives who are techies living in the Midwest. They like it there, and we have different opinions about where we'd prefer to live. Sorry if my straightforward comment about what I like in the Bay area came across as either an attack on the Midwest, or ignorance of the Midwest. It wasn't intended to be either.
- chaostheory 8y ago
  Yes, they are concentrated in the Chicago metro. The cost of living there is not much better than the Bay Area minus the advantages that the Bay Area offers. The metros around Austin and Portland are a better alternative imo.
JohnCrane 8y ago
aka "i'm a smug libturd and think i'm better than everyone else"

JustSomeNobody 8y ago

Big, gigantic tornadoes. I live in florida and we can see our big nasty storms coming for weeks. The "alley" doesn't come with that feature.

hunter23 8y ago

The midwest is an underrated area of the US but unfortunately the lack of diversity makes it hard for me to live there. It's a hard area for certain cultures to live in. edit: not sure why I'm downvoted as my wife lived in the midwest and it was hard for her to practice her culture. She has fond memories of the area but knows how unpractical it was for her parents. Her family had to make a monthly 1.5 hour drive into Chicago to find Indian groceries, she got picked incessantly for being the only Indian kid in school, and her parents couldn't eat out because there so few options with vegetarian food. It's just hard living in a place where so few people have a similar skin tone, religion, or culture as you which is why most Indians move out of the midwest. People make fun of the racism of the South, but I grew up in a diverse metro in the South and didn't have to deal with any of this since about 25% of my school was Asian. Obviously, Chicago and some of the other large metros are ok. I'm just pointing out that in all these threads there is this argument to "move somewhere else" but there are huge regions of the country many have to rule out because they are ethnic minorities.

codeafin 8y ago
It is true, I live in one of those cities (Omaha) at a tech startup, it's been tiring these last 4 years sitting next to people who openly talk and try to 'educate' peers about how immigrants kill people, vaccines cause cancer, and climate change is made up from dodgy scientist readings. Education could be a lot better here.
NotQuantum 8y ago
As someone from Kansas, absolutely an issue. It's probably 90% white, there's no culture in Kansas City, just a bunch of hipsters with clear framed glasses. When I interned for Garmin a few years back, they had intern events to hype us up about living in Kansas City. It's essentially a cultural wasteland, and tech jobs are few and far between. The startup scene there is a joke too, they suck up new college grads too stupid to realize they can work elsewhere and pay them below market.
- saosebastiao 8y ago
  There's plenty of culture in Kansas, just like everywhere else in the world. The problem is homogeneity of culture, not the lack of it.

dionidium 8y ago

> It is very much a culture of YIMBY right now too. Driverless shuttles? Yeah sure. New apartment building? Yeah sure. New tech startups? Yeah sure. Nodded in affirmation to everything but this. NIMBYism is everywhere. In my hometown of St. Louis, people oppose everything for the same two lame reasons every time: traffic and parking. They oppose buildings in busy areas, in blighted areas, in single-family areas, in business districts, in areas that have been contracting for five decades -- everywhere. And the mantra is always, "but what about traffic and parking?"

saosebastiao 8y ago

The midwest is underrated, but even though they have the right mentality there are still major barriers to this idea: 1) People almost universally live close to where they grew up. Trying to get someone whose family lives in California to move to the Midwest is inherently harder than getting a Midwesterner living in SV to move back. 2) Jobs don't just shift, and they definitely don't do it quickly. There are a multitude of reasons why it is rational for companies to pay more to live in a more expensive area. What company would move across the country in order to pay more reasonable wages if it meant they lost nearly all connection to suppliers or customers or industry associations or academic/research relationships? 3) For many people, it isn't okay to just pack up and leave if you don't like it. Don't like slavery? Move north! I know that is an extreme example of the mentality, but we are still talking about the wealth and prosperity of an entire generation being swept away by the greed of another generation. Why shouldn't we fight back?

almost_usual 8y ago

I feel like people view California sometimes as an entirely blue state which is absolutely false. If you go anywhere outside of a metropolitan area you are in Red country. Go to South Lake Tahoe and tell me you don't see Trump signs. Rural is rural, I went to a local bar West of Sacramento and felt like I was in my home town in nowhere Illinois.

dsfyu404ed 8y ago
Blue CA makes all the decisions that affect the state. It's a blue state.
- almost_usual 8y ago
  If you want to never leave the Bay Area or LA/SD area yeah you're in a blue state. As soon as you take a road trip to a pretty national park be prepared to encounter plenty of Red.
  - dsfyu404ed 8y ago
    So? Why is that an issue? They have no say in how the place is run (and resent the blue part of the state for it, which is why splitting the state keeps getting proposed) so unless seeing a Trump bumper sticker ruins your day it doesn't really affect anything.
    - almost_usual 8y ago
      I'm relating to the original post, the commenter said "Omaha is blue but everything outside is red". This is also true in California. Metropolitan areas are going to be blue, rural areas are red. > Unless seeing a Trump bumper sticker ruins your day it doesn't really affect anything No, but walking into a bar or restaurant with my girlfriend and having everyone there stare at you and treat you differently is a thing. Only saying that you're not entering some blue paradise in California.
      - 8y ago

deleted 8y ago

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p3llin0r3 8y ago

Depends on what you want. I've lived in the Midwest my entire life, from a tiny town of 2,000 people to Chicago Illinois. I'm moving out to Portland in less than a month. I REALLY dislike the Midwest due to it's lack of natural beauty, epidemic of poor civil engineering and city design, and hostile climate. > If you're looking to move to the Bay area, you should also look at moving to the like Lincoln, NE or Omaha, NE or Kansas City. A lot more so if you have a family. I know that sounds strange, but.... Comparing the job market of Lincoln, Omaha, or KC to the Bay Area is very flawed. The tech-hubs are a real thing, and there are advantages to working in an office that make remote work undesirable. ( More likely to be promoted, having a social life, etc. ) Even in cities like Portland, you look around at the jobs being offered and see MOSTLY lame fintech and insurance company jobs. Additionally, you are away from the critical mass of highly educated and motivated developers. Even here in Chicago, you meet a LOT of the b-team. > The Midwest is cheap. Albeit harder than the past, it is still possible and common in the Midwest to live a middle-class-ish lifestyle on a single income. A two bedroom apartment can be less than $500 a month. While it's true that you can get a large house for cheaper, what are you going to do while you are in these cities? They, full stop, lack the cultural and natural vibrancy of the Bay Area. Extremely homogeneous, poorly designed cities full of insurance salesmen and hicks. Brutal cold winters and sweltering, buggy summers. Not that you would want to go outside anyway, since most of these Midwestern cities have declined to invest in walkable infrastructure and instead more resemble disconnected buildings joined by huge highways. You will drive everywhere and none of it will be interesting or beautiful. ( To be fair, I hear Columbus has some nice infrastructure ) Not that you would have anywhere to drive to. The nature sucks. You can drive out of town and see some beautiful... corn fields. And flat land. Filled with bugs. Nobody has bothered to forge hiking trails because there's nothing to see. > I have friends with $830/month mortgage payments on their house. The most expensive house is the one you can't sell. And housing is not an automatically good investment like many people believe. I know from experience, a lot of my friends who bought cheap houses regret it now that they are interested in selling and NOBODY'S BUYING. > The Internet is solid in the Midwest too... True. You can do the job. If you don't mind working remote / find a good job in the Midwest, it is 100% viable to live there. > Lastly, (this is a hot topic issue so I am reluctant to put it in, but it is something that comes up from my friends on the west coast) the states are red states, but the cities are blue. Yes. This means every time you decide you want to get away from the city, you are greeted by a bunch of Trump-supporting, confederate flag waving yokels who cut the sleeves off of their shirts. Also this means that when those people want to get away from the country, guess where they go? Your city, where you have to interact with them.

abalone 8y ago

These are all very good points. I recently visited the midwestern city near where I grew up and was AMAZED, as a longtime SF resident, at the spacious cafes in gorgeous brick and timber buildings that would cost millions on open in SF. At the craft bars where liquor licensing was no problem. At the super cheap houses you could drive to in 10 minutes where the biggest cost was probably renovation. And seemingly more young, progressive-ish people out and about in the city than I remember. Diversity definitely an issue but pretty LGBT friendly and solidly blue state politics. But... This all overlooks the major draw to SF which is work. It's the center of our industry. With all that can be said about remote work, it's harder to find the right gig that way. And there is a lot to be said for the more diverse, cosmopolitan culture here.