5 ms·
The character is what brought them there? Not jobs? Also, which SF are you proposing to maintain? The 1850's version? Early '90's? Whenever you decided to move
by Qworg 8y ago
The character is what brought them there? Not jobs?
Also, which SF are you proposing to maintain? The 1850's version? Early '90's? Whenever you decided to move there?
The only constant is change and renewal - you can't live in a museum.
- SCAQTony 8y agoWhy not? Rich people do. Bill Gates lives in a 66,000 square foot "house" with collectibles in it. Larry Ellison on a 23-acre estate. Why does the everyone below them have to be forced into cell block apartments?
- Karrot_Kream 8y agoWhat is your definition of a "cell-block apartment"?
- reaperducer 8y agohttp://time.com/4581230/hong-kong-apartments-property-sale-rent-small-housing/ http://time.com/4581230/hong-kong-apartments-property-sale-r... http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/travel_news/article-4306496/Coffin-apartments-Hong-Kong-one-room-families-LA.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/travel_news/article-430649...
- SCAQTony 8y agoMy definition of a cell block apartment is any outside wall[s] and/or a ceiling/floor which are the only barriers that separate you from your neighbor. I think having a garden or a porch, even a side yard is important to middle class. I am getting severely voted down for having this opinion, but I think my definition and the history of density in urban areas is on my side. When you put a bunch of young males in a crowded urban center, crime, violence, drug addiction happens. https://digitalcommons.csbsju.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1040&context=honors_theses https://digitalcommons.csbsju.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?articl...
- rsynnott 8y agoIn most of Europe, the majority of the middle-class lives in housing where at least one wall is shared with a neighbour (whether it be apartments, semi-detached or terraced houses). For that matter, most middle-class New Yorkers live in apartments or other high density housing, and seem to survive.
- mjevans 8y agoJust replying about 'balconies' - I //hate// them as sources of noisy neighbors and neighbors that smoke and thus ruin the air around where I live. I also dislike how MDU exhausts, particularly the laundry exhausts, are not sent out a scrubbed (E.G. water filtration) negative draw system to remove the fine particulates. I have never in my life even seen an MDU with such a setup, let alone filtered air ingress delivered to each unit.
- bytematic 8y agoAny apartments that go up in san fransisco will be nicer than most houses in the world
- arethuza 8y agoI lived in the centre of Edinburgh in the UNESCO World Heritage Area for 30 years and that is pretty close to living in a museum and I was pretty happy with the experience https://ewh.org.uk/ https://ewh.org.uk/
- khuey 8y agoThe west side of San Francisco is nobody's idea of a World Heritage site. It's just bland California sprawl.
- arethuza 8y agoAnd there are many parts of Edinburgh that aren't that exceptional (or even very nice) - you don't keep everything in a museum but the things that are worth protecting should be protected. The catch is getting the balance right between the two extremes - it always seems to be presented as a false dichotomy between "no controls" and "no change". NB I'm no claiming that the Edinburgh planning process is perfect - just reacting on my experience of owning and living in listed properties in an extremely heavily controlled area.
- greglindahl 8y agoSo the unexceptional and un-nice areas of Edinburgh are also extremely heavily controlled? I can't figure it out from reading what you wrote. For SF, the whole place is heavily controlled.
- arethuza 8y agoNo there has been amount of new development in the last 20 years - particularly along the coastline where old harbour and dock areas have been redeveloped. Edinburgh does also have the advantage of excellent public transport links into the centre (e.g. hence the old joke "nice castle, pity they built it so close to the railway"). From what I remember of walking around SF - parts of it are very nice and large parts of it are pretty unexceptional. Not sure why would want to apply the same rules to both. But the nice parts are definitely worth of protection in my view.
- flatline 8y agoThere are jobs all across the country. The total cost of living in SF is the highest in the US right now, so it can't be the pay that's attractive - if you're making $250k/year and paying $1mm for a starter home, you could almost certainly do better living elsewhere at a lower salary. Jobs could still be a component, but I would say it's the character of the jobs, and the character of the area, that draws people.
- lovich 8y agoA home being only 4x your yearly salary is a much better ratio than most of the country. You could theoretically pay that off in 10 years without much sacrifice and most mortgages are 30 year terms. When you add in prop 13 which prevents your costs from rising with the market, then that seems like a great deal all around
- butterfi 8y agoSF is a city that is constantly changing itself, for good or bad. Been in SF for over 40 years now and still can't believe how much has changed in that time.
- reaperducer 8y agoThe character is what brought them there? Not jobs? Very often, yes. Especially in the 1960's. Thousands of people moved to San Francisco in the 60's just for its character. Itinerant tech workers may not understand that. But once the tech bubble moves on to the next hot location, the locals who love the city and loved it before Google and Facebook will still be there.
- eat_veggies 8y agoSorry, but the 1960's were over 50 years ago--approaching 60. The locals who loved it for its character half a century ago will be dead by the time the "tech bubble moves on to the next hot location," if they aren't already.
- wahern 8y agoYeah. The "locals" will be all the people who moved here for the tech jobs. And people forget that the reason there was so much culture in California in the 1960s was because of the booming economy, driven in large part by defense industries. Everybody was coming to California, and that drove cultural dynamism. SF was an extremely politically conservative city when the hippies came. They certainly didn't come to SF because they liked the locals; they came here along with everybody else and changed the city.
- reaperducer 8y agoAnd because they're older than you, their opinions and values don't matter. Got it. You do realize that age discrimination is a federal crime, right?
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- seem_2211 8y ago.... and?
- hindsightbias 8y agoAll metropolitan zoning decisions should be made based off of short-term trends? Were you around for dotcom? Character and cost played a part in the early post dotcom techwave. They didn't start coming here for the jobs. They came here because they already had a job in the valley (with >70% low-density housing) and it was cheaper and hipper to live in SF. They slept on my couch for weeks while apt hunting. Then that wave required busing. Then some employers decided to move/expand in the city because workers wanted to be where it has hip. I'd be happy to bring a bulldozer to Valencia or Dolores. Problem is, a few thousand early-adopter otherwise glibertarian techies will be the first to jump in front of it. And for some reason, it's those baddies in the zoning department who refuse to adapt to the latest fad. To think of all the strip malls we could have had. Or that freeway running thru Hayes, the Panhandle and GG. https://hoodline.com/2015/03/panhandle-freeway-revolt https://hoodline.com/2015/03/panhandle-freeway-revolt
- saosebastiao 8y agoCaving to short term trends is how we got into this mess in the first place. Zoning-based cartels on housing is the microcosm of time, not the other way around.