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On the flip side people living in socialized healthcare Countries have other stresses. In the usa my insurance lets me go to 10 doctors for differing opinions.

On the flip side people living in socialized healthcare Countries have other stresses. In the usa my insurance lets me go to 10 doctors for differing opinions. I can go straight to a specialist. When I need non urgent surgery it's scheduled with a few weeks instead of months.

maljx 8y ago
I can do the same in Germany with public insurance.
- evfanknitram 8y ago
  Probably similar in sweden. I'm sure I could get a second or third opinion without a problem (for anything potentially serious). Maybe someone would start question what I'm doing if I ask for >3 doctors but I'm not sure that's a bad thing.
pornel 8y ago
You know that's possible everywhere? It's not like socialized healthcare imprisons doctors and forbids capitalism. You can still go to 10 doctors, and pay for 9 of these visits. US companies operating in the UK even tend to provide private healthcare insurance. Such "perk" makes UK employees chuckle, but hey, if you want private healthcare, the same US/multinational corporations operate in the UK too.
decebalus1 8y ago
Nice anecdote. I also have a few (also in the USA, with allegedly premium 1percenter insurance): > I can go straight to a specialist. Me too. But if I schedule an appointment with any specialist it's going to be at least a month. And after that appointment, the followup will be in another two months. The appointment costs at least $400 and gets me about 10 minutes of face-time with the doctor but about one hour with the administrative/support staff. > When I need non urgent surgery it's scheduled with a few weeks instead of months. That is true, because that's the bread-and-butter of the McMedicine world. If however you need to do something which is not an emergency and slightly off the beaten path in terms of symptoms or which crosses medical specializations, good luck coordinating medical care. You will be scheduled in a couple of months to minimize liability, so that perhaps it goes away or you go away.
cptskippy 8y ago
> my insurance Not all insurances are equal, you or your employer are paying for that privileged and can obviously afford it. You should price out insurance options for a minimum wage job and compare it to your own to see just how lucky you are. > I can go straight to a specialist. Cadillac insurance, PPO? Most people have HMOs which don't allow that. In socialized medicine doctors usually aren't profit driven and their job/salary are dependent on the level of care they provide and not the number of patients they churn through.
spamizbad 8y ago
> In the usa my insurance lets me go to 10 doctors for differing opinions. I can go straight to a specialist. When I need non urgent surgery it's scheduled with a few weeks instead of months. Only if you have good insurance. Insurance companies have been cracking down on this behavior. For example, there are certain specialists which are straight-up not covered unless you have an explicit referral. Likewise, networks of providers will vary. For example, sometimes your area's top hospital won't be "in network", so you're now paying significantly more out-of-pocket for going out of network. If you currently are enjoying this benefit, please anticipate that privilege to be gone within a decade, regardless of what direction the US healthcare market goes.
- ryandrake 8y ago
  Yea, it’s a total minefield. It’s gotten to the point where I won’t go to the doctor unless I literally can’t function. Whenever I go, it’s the same song and dance: 1. Doc recommends a long list of blood tests for reasons she can’t seem to articulate. She’ll also recommend a testing lab. Oh, and see this specialist! 2. Now I have to figure out: a) which tests do I actually need and which ones are just being recommended out of abundance of caution or because the doc needs to protect herself legally? b) will my insurance cover the tests I’m going to do? If not (or even if so) how much will they cost me? c) will my insurance work at this particular lab? The lab often won’t know. d) do I really need to see this specialist or is my doc just tossing some juicy business to her med school buddy? e) is the specialist in my insurance’s network? f) how much is the specialist’s bill likely to be? g) how much will my insurance pay? 3. Do all the things (or not) 4. Random bills for random amounts start landing in my mailbox over the next few months. They could be anywhere between $100 and $10,000, totally impossible to know ahead of time. I now have to pick up the phone and start negotiating with the doctors and my own insurance company, figuring out what I can pay now, what will have to wait, etc. Usually the insurance company will say something about a deductible and “you have to pay LOL.” The stress is enough to give me an ulcer (which I’d need to visit yet another specialist for, is this one in-network or out?)
  - pkaye 8y ago
    One reason I like the Kaiser HMO system... Everything is under one umbrella. If a doctor approves a test, the system will cover under the plan agreement. I can take 1 test or 50 and it is all covered at a small copay per visit. And specialists are within the system. Last time I needed a specialist, my doctor looked up one in the system and told me there is an open slot in a few hours so he can book me. And once you establish tie with a doctor, you can email them for advice, prescription renewal anytime. For very simple problems, I just email the doctor my concern and maybe a picture and they may prescribe something if it doesn't need an office visit. All at zero cost. There are still a occasional billing hiccups but the big tradeoff is that I can only visit the Kaiser hospitals except if I'm traveling and have an emergency.
na85 8y ago
I think I'd rather wait longer for elective surgery than gamble on ruining my children's chances at going to university because I might have to spend their tuition on medical bills.
- ygra 8y ago
  Don't most countries with socialized healthcare also have free (or affordable) education?
  - dv_dt 8y ago
    I think there is a bit of dark satire there because in the US you can go bankrupt from the medical care, _and_ then go into even more debt from sending your kid even to a public university.
  - na85 8y ago
    Canada doesn't have free post-secondary education but we have socialized healthcare. When my daughter is old enough, if she wants to go to university or college, I will do my best to pay for as much as I can. The great thing about this country is that if she gets seriously sick I won't have to choose between her health and her education. The US healthcare system is barbaric.
XorNot 8y ago
I live in a country with socialized medicine and have paid for private treatment on a number of occasions because I wanted to have an elective issue taken care of on my timetable. The difference is if I couldn't afford to pay, I would've been seen based on the urgency of the condition at no charge anyway.
germanier 8y ago
I'm member of a German public health fund (for political reasons, I could instead opt for cheaper private health insurance which many people argue is better, this option is not even available to most of the population). Last year, I went directly to a specialist for a non-urgent reason (two weeks between my call and the appointment) who recommend surgery which was scheduled in a top university hospital about four weeks later and performed by a highly regarded doctor. To make sure this is a good idea I visited another specialist before. I could have visited more if I wanted but there is really no reason to do that. I worried about lots of things but not one second about billing issues, waiting times, or quality of care. Only thing I paid? The taxi ride home. For anything else there was my insurance card. This is the same type of insurance plan 89% of the population uses – including the unemployed, middle managers, elderly, students, chronically ill, and always healthy.
- heeeman 8y ago
  > Only thing I paid? The taxi ride home. For anything else there was my insurance card. Oh, so you don't pay for your insurance card? Nice deal! Because I also have public health insurance in Germany, and last time I checked, it cost 14% of my gross salary.
  - mgkimsal 8y ago
    and if you're unemployed (or unemployable) do you lose the ability to use the insurance? does it get cancelled if you don't pay?
    - germanier 8y ago
      The first month after getting unemployed is free, after that either the unemployment insurance or the government takes over your payment. If you have to pay the fee on your own and miss at least two months (which can't really happen for regular employees as the fee is taken directly out of their paycheck) the fees can be collected with exactly the same procedure as other taxes. Until this happens you are only covered in an acute illness or pain situation, pregnancy, and for some preventive checkups. Health insurance (both private and public) can never be cancelled for nonpayment.
ilikehurdles 8y ago
> In the usa my insurance lets me go to 10 doctors for differing opinions. I can go straight to a specialist. When I need non urgent surgery it's scheduled with a few weeks instead of months. For those who can afford that class of insurance, maybe. I had to wait 3 months to set up my primary care physician, and for a specialist the initial wait of 4 months turned into 6 after they rescheduled me. I lived in Boston where you pretty much can't throw a rock without accidentally hitting a physician. Also, as someone who has lived in Germany and has family in Germany, these conservative anecdotes about the quality of American care in comparison to Europe always strike me as full of shit. They don't align with any reality.
mejari 8y ago
>In the usa my insurance lets me go to 10 doctors for differing opinions What insurance covers 9 second opinions?

maljx 8y ago

I can do the same in Germany with public insurance.

evfanknitram 8y ago
Probably similar in sweden. I'm sure I could get a second or third opinion without a problem (for anything potentially serious). Maybe someone would start question what I'm doing if I ask for >3 doctors but I'm not sure that's a bad thing.

pornel 8y ago

You know that's possible everywhere? It's not like socialized healthcare imprisons doctors and forbids capitalism. You can still go to 10 doctors, and pay for 9 of these visits. US companies operating in the UK even tend to provide private healthcare insurance. Such "perk" makes UK employees chuckle, but hey, if you want private healthcare, the same US/multinational corporations operate in the UK too.

decebalus1 8y ago

Nice anecdote. I also have a few (also in the USA, with allegedly premium 1percenter insurance): > I can go straight to a specialist. Me too. But if I schedule an appointment with any specialist it's going to be at least a month. And after that appointment, the followup will be in another two months. The appointment costs at least $400 and gets me about 10 minutes of face-time with the doctor but about one hour with the administrative/support staff. > When I need non urgent surgery it's scheduled with a few weeks instead of months. That is true, because that's the bread-and-butter of the McMedicine world. If however you need to do something which is not an emergency and slightly off the beaten path in terms of symptoms or which crosses medical specializations, good luck coordinating medical care. You will be scheduled in a couple of months to minimize liability, so that perhaps it goes away or you go away.

cptskippy 8y ago

> my insurance Not all insurances are equal, you or your employer are paying for that privileged and can obviously afford it. You should price out insurance options for a minimum wage job and compare it to your own to see just how lucky you are. > I can go straight to a specialist. Cadillac insurance, PPO? Most people have HMOs which don't allow that. In socialized medicine doctors usually aren't profit driven and their job/salary are dependent on the level of care they provide and not the number of patients they churn through.

spamizbad 8y ago

> In the usa my insurance lets me go to 10 doctors for differing opinions. I can go straight to a specialist. When I need non urgent surgery it's scheduled with a few weeks instead of months. Only if you have good insurance. Insurance companies have been cracking down on this behavior. For example, there are certain specialists which are straight-up not covered unless you have an explicit referral. Likewise, networks of providers will vary. For example, sometimes your area's top hospital won't be "in network", so you're now paying significantly more out-of-pocket for going out of network. If you currently are enjoying this benefit, please anticipate that privilege to be gone within a decade, regardless of what direction the US healthcare market goes.

ryandrake 8y ago
Yea, it’s a total minefield. It’s gotten to the point where I won’t go to the doctor unless I literally can’t function. Whenever I go, it’s the same song and dance: 1. Doc recommends a long list of blood tests for reasons she can’t seem to articulate. She’ll also recommend a testing lab. Oh, and see this specialist! 2. Now I have to figure out: a) which tests do I actually need and which ones are just being recommended out of abundance of caution or because the doc needs to protect herself legally? b) will my insurance cover the tests I’m going to do? If not (or even if so) how much will they cost me? c) will my insurance work at this particular lab? The lab often won’t know. d) do I really need to see this specialist or is my doc just tossing some juicy business to her med school buddy? e) is the specialist in my insurance’s network? f) how much is the specialist’s bill likely to be? g) how much will my insurance pay? 3. Do all the things (or not) 4. Random bills for random amounts start landing in my mailbox over the next few months. They could be anywhere between $100 and $10,000, totally impossible to know ahead of time. I now have to pick up the phone and start negotiating with the doctors and my own insurance company, figuring out what I can pay now, what will have to wait, etc. Usually the insurance company will say something about a deductible and “you have to pay LOL.” The stress is enough to give me an ulcer (which I’d need to visit yet another specialist for, is this one in-network or out?)
- pkaye 8y ago
  One reason I like the Kaiser HMO system... Everything is under one umbrella. If a doctor approves a test, the system will cover under the plan agreement. I can take 1 test or 50 and it is all covered at a small copay per visit. And specialists are within the system. Last time I needed a specialist, my doctor looked up one in the system and told me there is an open slot in a few hours so he can book me. And once you establish tie with a doctor, you can email them for advice, prescription renewal anytime. For very simple problems, I just email the doctor my concern and maybe a picture and they may prescribe something if it doesn't need an office visit. All at zero cost. There are still a occasional billing hiccups but the big tradeoff is that I can only visit the Kaiser hospitals except if I'm traveling and have an emergency.

na85 8y ago

I think I'd rather wait longer for elective surgery than gamble on ruining my children's chances at going to university because I might have to spend their tuition on medical bills.

ygra 8y ago
Don't most countries with socialized healthcare also have free (or affordable) education?
- dv_dt 8y ago
  I think there is a bit of dark satire there because in the US you can go bankrupt from the medical care, _and_ then go into even more debt from sending your kid even to a public university.
- na85 8y ago
  Canada doesn't have free post-secondary education but we have socialized healthcare. When my daughter is old enough, if she wants to go to university or college, I will do my best to pay for as much as I can. The great thing about this country is that if she gets seriously sick I won't have to choose between her health and her education. The US healthcare system is barbaric.

XorNot 8y ago

I live in a country with socialized medicine and have paid for private treatment on a number of occasions because I wanted to have an elective issue taken care of on my timetable. The difference is if I couldn't afford to pay, I would've been seen based on the urgency of the condition at no charge anyway.

germanier 8y ago

I'm member of a German public health fund (for political reasons, I could instead opt for cheaper private health insurance which many people argue is better, this option is not even available to most of the population). Last year, I went directly to a specialist for a non-urgent reason (two weeks between my call and the appointment) who recommend surgery which was scheduled in a top university hospital about four weeks later and performed by a highly regarded doctor. To make sure this is a good idea I visited another specialist before. I could have visited more if I wanted but there is really no reason to do that. I worried about lots of things but not one second about billing issues, waiting times, or quality of care. Only thing I paid? The taxi ride home. For anything else there was my insurance card. This is the same type of insurance plan 89% of the population uses – including the unemployed, middle managers, elderly, students, chronically ill, and always healthy.

heeeman 8y ago
> Only thing I paid? The taxi ride home. For anything else there was my insurance card. Oh, so you don't pay for your insurance card? Nice deal! Because I also have public health insurance in Germany, and last time I checked, it cost 14% of my gross salary.
- mgkimsal 8y ago
  and if you're unemployed (or unemployable) do you lose the ability to use the insurance? does it get cancelled if you don't pay?
  - germanier 8y ago
    The first month after getting unemployed is free, after that either the unemployment insurance or the government takes over your payment. If you have to pay the fee on your own and miss at least two months (which can't really happen for regular employees as the fee is taken directly out of their paycheck) the fees can be collected with exactly the same procedure as other taxes. Until this happens you are only covered in an acute illness or pain situation, pregnancy, and for some preventive checkups. Health insurance (both private and public) can never be cancelled for nonpayment.

ilikehurdles 8y ago

> In the usa my insurance lets me go to 10 doctors for differing opinions. I can go straight to a specialist. When I need non urgent surgery it's scheduled with a few weeks instead of months. For those who can afford that class of insurance, maybe. I had to wait 3 months to set up my primary care physician, and for a specialist the initial wait of 4 months turned into 6 after they rescheduled me. I lived in Boston where you pretty much can't throw a rock without accidentally hitting a physician. Also, as someone who has lived in Germany and has family in Germany, these conservative anecdotes about the quality of American care in comparison to Europe always strike me as full of shit. They don't align with any reality.

mejari 8y ago

>In the usa my insurance lets me go to 10 doctors for differing opinions What insurance covers 9 second opinions?