8 ms·

Airline fails after China labels Palau an ‘illegal destination’

48 points by ilamont 8y ago

mc32 8y ago
Illegal because they, Palau, dejure recognize Taiwan as a sovereign nation. A strong-arming tactic to get small (and not so small) countries to go along with the farce. Ultimately, China will win... what they achieve geographically is another story. Taiwan is not going to revert voluntarily.
- markdown 8y ago
  > Taiwan is not going to revert voluntarily. Russia proved that it's quite possible to manipulate public opinion quite easily these days. Turning an enemy into an ally isn't all that hard with sustained propaganda and by supporting friendly politicians.
  - arthurofbabylon 8y ago
    Contextually, I’m not sure how well the lessons of Crimea would apply to Taiwan. Taiwan is often considered to be the most fiercely democratic country in the world. Edit: ahh - I understand - US sentiment in ‘16 election was your example, not the Crimea.
    - BerislavLopac 8y ago
      > Taiwan is often considered to be the most fiercely democratic country in the world. So was the UK.
      - pjc50 8y ago
        Nah, that was propaganda. We've always had an unelected upper house (!), non-proportional elections, quasi-banned parties (SF) and so on. "Most fiercely democratic country" is probably Switzerland.
      - yellowapple 8y ago
        By whom? I'm no expert in British government, but last I checked it's a monarchy with a parliament, the "Lords" of which having been indirectly appointed by that same monarch (by way of the Prime Minister). That ain't exactly a new development, either.
  - zer71856 8y ago
    Intermarriage between Taiwanese and Mainland Chinese accounts for 70% of all international marriage in Taiwan. Add to all the business that is done between the countries and how many of the top Taiwanese students are choosing to go China for college, it's only a matter of time that China will start to have a higher prestige. Even amount my network, the best programmers and engineers have all moved to China to for work. The pay is easily 3-5x more.
- zer71856 8y ago
  Is this any different than the US hurting companies that do business with Iran? Do you also consider the Iran sanctions a farce?
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - SuperNinKenDo 8y ago
    Yes. One could always complain about both, but yes there is a difference. The US doesn't try to punish companies that come from countries that merely acknowledge Iran as a sovereign nation. Nor does the US insist that anybody who claims Iran is not part of America be banned from doing business in America. I think there's certainly a difference.
  - danaris 8y ago
    Yes, absolutely. There's a huge difference between trying to isolate a country because it has political goals that you perceive as being detrimental to the whole world (however arguable that may be), and trying to isolate a country purely because it refuses to allow itself to be re-annexed by you.
  - mc32 8y ago
    Afaict, Taiwan is not violating any non proliferation treaty, isn’t vowing to destroy neighbors, isn’t funding tertorism in its neighborhood. It’s been the opposite, a good international citizen producing great minds. So, to me that makes a difference.
annatashi 8y ago
What a sorry, pathetic, sad government. It's a good thing that "Chinese economy fails after US, Europe, Japan labels China an 'illegal exporter'" is also taking place.
- lgvln 8y ago
  This seems like an obvious troll account.
mrpopo 8y ago
> “We have tried everything we can to advertise and promote Palau in China’s tourism market. We spent more than USD$1 million on promoting Palau annually,” the airline’s statement said. A big marketing mistake IMO. This is not the first time China has shown their teeth to impose the "One China Policy". Ignore them and hit on emerging markets, like India.
Leary 8y ago
Delta airlines, which serviced between Japan and Palau also exited the market. Looks like it's not profitable.
- forapurpose 8y ago
  Do we know why Delta exited? Maybe China pressured them too.
  - Leary 8y ago
    https://www.saipantribune.com/index.php/delta-end-flights-saipan-palau/ https://www.saipantribune.com/index.php/delta-end-flights-sa...
    - forapurpose 8y ago
      Thanks for the link. Excerpted: In a statement, Hiroko Okada from the corporate communications department of Delta Air Lines attributed this decision to “unsustainable pressure,” including lower demand, in the Micronesia market. and The shrinking Japanese market that travels to the Pacific and Micronesia was prevalent and the service flights cuts were inevitably foreseen. Concepcion said that MVA saw it with Delta’s pullout in Guam, United Airlines’ nearly 50-percent reduction in flights between Japan and Guam, and now with Delta’s flight suspension for Saipan and Palau. At least, there's plenty of support for Leary's claim.
SuperNinKenDo 8y ago
Sick of this shit quite frankly. Western nations need to grow some balls and start to resist this narrative. I was extremely pleased when Trump acknowledged Taiwanese congratulations. This was the right thing to do, and I was appalled when many criticised him for this. China is one of the most illiberal up and comers on the world stage.
- powerapple 8y ago
  Taiwan (or Republic of China) had chance to be separated from China before People's Republic of China took the China seat in UN. The government refused to change to Taiwan because both the government and people consider ROC as the China. Of course opinion and education changed especially young people's opinion, but legally Taiwan is still Republic of China unless they change their constitution. And their constitution claims whole China and Mongolia as their land. China of course, legally required to see Palau as illegal in order not to lose claim on Taiwan. At least it is not putting sanction to every country and company does business with Taiwan. There is nothing wrong with it. Similar to Cuba and Iran with US.
  - Freak_NL 8y ago
    > There is nothing wrong with it. You are either mainland Chinese, cruel, or woefully uninformed (or all of the former). Taiwan is not some rogue state with dubious alliances — like Cuba could be considered in the previous century — it is a democratic nation with a healthy economy and all the trappings of a modern nation-state; except for the official recognition which it can't get due to China's (the People's Republic (PRC) that is) bullying on the world stage. The PRC does what it does because it can get away with it. That's a basic Realist attitude that works for them. The PRC won't likely release their claim on Taiwan any time soon, because of its economic/military aspirations in the South China Sea (cf. their dubious claims on the Paracel and Spratly Islands). The rest of the world won't upset the balance because of China's economic importance. It could if it wanted to, but that would require the US and the EU to present a common front on the issue (not very likely right now).
  - SuperNinKenDo 8y ago
Overtonwindow 8y ago
I wonder if the President has considered recognizing Taiwan. What would the ramifications be? Call the Chinese bluff. It's the right thing to do, and if the US will, I think others will follow.
innagadadavida 8y ago
This might be blessing in disguise for Palau - it will be devoid of Chinese tourists and a quieter place for other tourists.
- dogma1138 8y ago
  Not if no other airline would fly there. Cases like these is why nations should preserve national airlines at all costs.
- aaron695 8y ago
  > This might be blessing in disguise for Palau With a average income around $10,000 and such a reliance on tourism I can not this as a blessing? Even the richest countries in the world value tourism, I've yet to see any country not want tourists, they bring in money, it's the health of your nation. (NK for instance loves tourists, they do however make it expensive since they need to keep them in line) You could try for a theoretical math equation how reducing lower paying tourists for might bring in higher paying ones, but I very much doubt it would ever work out in practice. Palau would have to be pretty racist not to value the Chinese tourism market.
DomreiRoam 8y ago
Isn't the same as what the USA did against Cuba or Iran or some countries against Israel? Boycotts are quite powerful tools to achieve your goal so it make sense that country try this.
- zer71856 8y ago
  Ore more recently ZTE and Iran.

48 points by ilamont 8y ago

mc32 8y ago

Illegal because they, Palau, dejure recognize Taiwan as a sovereign nation. A strong-arming tactic to get small (and not so small) countries to go along with the farce. Ultimately, China will win... what they achieve geographically is another story. Taiwan is not going to revert voluntarily.

markdown 8y ago
> Taiwan is not going to revert voluntarily. Russia proved that it's quite possible to manipulate public opinion quite easily these days. Turning an enemy into an ally isn't all that hard with sustained propaganda and by supporting friendly politicians.
- arthurofbabylon 8y ago
  Contextually, I’m not sure how well the lessons of Crimea would apply to Taiwan. Taiwan is often considered to be the most fiercely democratic country in the world. Edit: ahh - I understand - US sentiment in ‘16 election was your example, not the Crimea.
  - BerislavLopac 8y ago
    > Taiwan is often considered to be the most fiercely democratic country in the world. So was the UK.
    - pjc50 8y ago
      Nah, that was propaganda. We've always had an unelected upper house (!), non-proportional elections, quasi-banned parties (SF) and so on. "Most fiercely democratic country" is probably Switzerland.
    - yellowapple 8y ago
      By whom? I'm no expert in British government, but last I checked it's a monarchy with a parliament, the "Lords" of which having been indirectly appointed by that same monarch (by way of the Prime Minister). That ain't exactly a new development, either.
- zer71856 8y ago
  Intermarriage between Taiwanese and Mainland Chinese accounts for 70% of all international marriage in Taiwan. Add to all the business that is done between the countries and how many of the top Taiwanese students are choosing to go China for college, it's only a matter of time that China will start to have a higher prestige. Even amount my network, the best programmers and engineers have all moved to China to for work. The pay is easily 3-5x more.
zer71856 8y ago
Is this any different than the US hurting companies that do business with Iran? Do you also consider the Iran sanctions a farce?
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- SuperNinKenDo 8y ago
  Yes. One could always complain about both, but yes there is a difference. The US doesn't try to punish companies that come from countries that merely acknowledge Iran as a sovereign nation. Nor does the US insist that anybody who claims Iran is not part of America be banned from doing business in America. I think there's certainly a difference.
- danaris 8y ago
  Yes, absolutely. There's a huge difference between trying to isolate a country because it has political goals that you perceive as being detrimental to the whole world (however arguable that may be), and trying to isolate a country purely because it refuses to allow itself to be re-annexed by you.
- mc32 8y ago
  Afaict, Taiwan is not violating any non proliferation treaty, isn’t vowing to destroy neighbors, isn’t funding tertorism in its neighborhood. It’s been the opposite, a good international citizen producing great minds. So, to me that makes a difference.

annatashi 8y ago

What a sorry, pathetic, sad government. It's a good thing that "Chinese economy fails after US, Europe, Japan labels China an 'illegal exporter'" is also taking place.

lgvln 8y ago
This seems like an obvious troll account.

mrpopo 8y ago

> “We have tried everything we can to advertise and promote Palau in China’s tourism market. We spent more than USD$1 million on promoting Palau annually,” the airline’s statement said. A big marketing mistake IMO. This is not the first time China has shown their teeth to impose the "One China Policy". Ignore them and hit on emerging markets, like India.

Leary 8y ago

Delta airlines, which serviced between Japan and Palau also exited the market. Looks like it's not profitable.

forapurpose 8y ago
Do we know why Delta exited? Maybe China pressured them too.
- Leary 8y ago
  https://www.saipantribune.com/index.php/delta-end-flights-saipan-palau/ https://www.saipantribune.com/index.php/delta-end-flights-sa...
  - forapurpose 8y ago
    Thanks for the link. Excerpted: In a statement, Hiroko Okada from the corporate communications department of Delta Air Lines attributed this decision to “unsustainable pressure,” including lower demand, in the Micronesia market. and The shrinking Japanese market that travels to the Pacific and Micronesia was prevalent and the service flights cuts were inevitably foreseen. Concepcion said that MVA saw it with Delta’s pullout in Guam, United Airlines’ nearly 50-percent reduction in flights between Japan and Guam, and now with Delta’s flight suspension for Saipan and Palau. At least, there's plenty of support for Leary's claim.

SuperNinKenDo 8y ago

Sick of this shit quite frankly. Western nations need to grow some balls and start to resist this narrative. I was extremely pleased when Trump acknowledged Taiwanese congratulations. This was the right thing to do, and I was appalled when many criticised him for this. China is one of the most illiberal up and comers on the world stage.

powerapple 8y ago
Taiwan (or Republic of China) had chance to be separated from China before People's Republic of China took the China seat in UN. The government refused to change to Taiwan because both the government and people consider ROC as the China. Of course opinion and education changed especially young people's opinion, but legally Taiwan is still Republic of China unless they change their constitution. And their constitution claims whole China and Mongolia as their land. China of course, legally required to see Palau as illegal in order not to lose claim on Taiwan. At least it is not putting sanction to every country and company does business with Taiwan. There is nothing wrong with it. Similar to Cuba and Iran with US.
- Freak_NL 8y ago
  > There is nothing wrong with it. You are either mainland Chinese, cruel, or woefully uninformed (or all of the former). Taiwan is not some rogue state with dubious alliances — like Cuba could be considered in the previous century — it is a democratic nation with a healthy economy and all the trappings of a modern nation-state; except for the official recognition which it can't get due to China's (the People's Republic (PRC) that is) bullying on the world stage. The PRC does what it does because it can get away with it. That's a basic Realist attitude that works for them. The PRC won't likely release their claim on Taiwan any time soon, because of its economic/military aspirations in the South China Sea (cf. their dubious claims on the Paracel and Spratly Islands). The rest of the world won't upset the balance because of China's economic importance. It could if it wanted to, but that would require the US and the EU to present a common front on the issue (not very likely right now).
- SuperNinKenDo 8y ago

Overtonwindow 8y ago

I wonder if the President has considered recognizing Taiwan. What would the ramifications be? Call the Chinese bluff. It's the right thing to do, and if the US will, I think others will follow.

innagadadavida 8y ago

This might be blessing in disguise for Palau - it will be devoid of Chinese tourists and a quieter place for other tourists.

dogma1138 8y ago
Not if no other airline would fly there. Cases like these is why nations should preserve national airlines at all costs.
aaron695 8y ago
> This might be blessing in disguise for Palau With a average income around $10,000 and such a reliance on tourism I can not this as a blessing? Even the richest countries in the world value tourism, I've yet to see any country not want tourists, they bring in money, it's the health of your nation. (NK for instance loves tourists, they do however make it expensive since they need to keep them in line) You could try for a theoretical math equation how reducing lower paying tourists for might bring in higher paying ones, but I very much doubt it would ever work out in practice. Palau would have to be pretty racist not to value the Chinese tourism market.

DomreiRoam 8y ago

Isn't the same as what the USA did against Cuba or Iran or some countries against Israel? Boycotts are quite powerful tools to achieve your goal so it make sense that country try this.

zer71856 8y ago
Ore more recently ZTE and Iran.