5 ms·

eBay is just craigslist, but you have to hand over your money before you can tell whether they're a scammer.

by risotto_groupon 8y ago

gowld 8y ago
Nah, you have to hand over your goods before you can tell whether the buyer is a scammer.
- xfer 8y ago
  How do you scam as a buyer, when you have to pay the money beforehand? Are you talking about stolen cards?
  - maddyboo 8y ago
    eBay/PayPal almost always sides with the buyer in disputes. It's relatively common for a buyer to purchase e.g. a DSLR and return it as "defective", mailing back a box of rocks to the seller.
    - brian_cunnie 8y ago
      I beg to differ. In my experience (a small sample set of 1), Ebay sided with me, the seller, and not the buyer. A gentleman from Italy purchased an old book I was selling. He disputed the transaction, saying the book had never arrived; however, the Italian post said they had delivered the book. eBay sided with me. I kept the seller's money.
      - mehrdadn 8y ago
        I mean at that point when the post office agrees they had the package, they literally cannot logically blame you, because you could not have had any fault in this decision. What else were you supposed to do, fly over and hand it over to them in person? The onus can only logically be on the receiver to make sure they get the package the post office delivers, not on you. I understand the trouble starts when there's plausible deniability and no witness around. How do you prove they shipped rocks? How do they prove they didn't? At that point it really could be either person's fault, and their policy seems to be to blame it on the seller. That's what people mean when they say eBay "always" sides with the buyer. They don't mean that this is literally true even when it clearly doesn't make sense.
      - Double_a_92 8y ago
        What could the buyer do at that point if you had send him rocks?
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
    - adamqureshi 8y ago
      Yup. PP will freeze your whole transaction without notice if the buyer flags you for any reason without explanation and you can forget arbitration. Good Lucky.
  - pfisch 8y ago
    You dispute the transaction and always win.
  - cellularmitosis 8y ago
    "It arrived in broken condition, I want a refund", etc, I'd imagine.
  - NeedMoreTea 8y ago
    Another commonly reported one is paying for an item by Paypal then collecting. Once you have the goods you report the item as undelivered[0]. eBay ask for proof of delivery that you can't supply, so automatically refund. Has been happening for years, but has become more prevalent recently. Last time I risked selling on eBay I spent a good part of the listing opting out of eBay Ts&Cs: Cash only, collection only, Paypal will be instantly refunded etc. Probably meant eBay could have cancelled the listing, but it worked. [0] https://community.ebay.co.uk/t5/Seller-Central/Ebay-Paypal-Collection-scam/m-p/5894309 https://community.ebay.co.uk/t5/Seller-Central/Ebay-Paypal-C... (INR=Item Not Received)
    - voltagex_ 8y ago
      Proof of delivery? Registered mail or even tracking will do it (at least in Australia, dunno what Royal Mail give you). I can send a package that requires a signature at the other end.
      - NeedMoreTea 8y ago
        That's if you send it, when there's a few different services with proof of delivery and some with insurance. I was calling out when the buyer visits your house/premises and collects in person, then claims to eBay the item was not received.
        Spivak 8y ago
        I'm not saying it should be this adversarial, but why not take a few photos with the buyer and the goods, them have them inspect the goods and sign a form with the date they received it and and a report on the condition? I wouldn't think it's that weird since anyone who's rented an apartment has to do the same.
    - dboreham 8y ago
      Always ship with tracking, proof of receipt and insurance to cover the transaction value plus any out of pocket expenses.
  - anonymous5133 8y ago
    "I never received the item" Then file a refund request. Ebay will eventually refund it if the seller can't provide a tracking. You can also spin it any number of other ways like if you get the item and the seller requests you to return the item then you just ship back a broken version.
noitsnot 8y ago
Ah, so Amazon is like eBay, but with new merchandise.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
mehrdadn 8y ago
No, there's a pretty darn crucial difference which is the reviews/reputation that you can view before you conduct the transaction. Someone with 5192 sells and 99% good reviews is probably not going to outright eat your money, but you have no idea if that's the type of person you're dealing with if you're using craigslist.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- adamqureshi 8y ago
  but can they "game" those fake reviews? we live in a world of fake news and fake reviews. Craigslist is a start up for scammers.
  - mehrdadn 8y ago
    No, I don't think they can. They can "game" maybe 15 reviews, but I have yet to be scammed by (or even hear of someone being scammed by) someone with thousands of reviews when they're almost all positive. It's kind of absurd to suggest the system is similar to that of craigslist where you generally have no data points whatsoever.
  - 0xcde4c3db 8y ago
    I seem to remember that the old-school method was to auction off a bunch of small-ticket items like shareware/freeware CDs, bumper stickers, etc. to build up positive reviews.
    - secabeen 8y ago
      You can do that, but you can't do that and have an account creation date that's 10+ years ago with 10k+ positive reviews,
  - firmgently 8y ago
    Something I heard about recently was businesses offering to buy accounts from legit users, priced based on how old the account is and % rating. Obviously that's something that could be abused by a scammer (buy trustworthy account and sell as many empty laptop boxes as you can before you get closed down). I think it was ads popping up on FB asking to buy eBay accounts that made me aware of it but can't find anything right now on a quick Google search. A couple of days ago I saw some tablets being sold for about 1/10th of their normal price by a seller with an old account and good feedback. But looking into it more I found that their only current sales listings were duplicates of the same tablet offer, and looking at past feedback it was mainly buys rather than sells and usually for household items and stuff that seemed personal rather than business related. Not exactly conclusive but it smelt funny enough that I didn't risk a purchase (I realise lots of people will just say that the low price makes it obvious, too good to be true means it isn't true etc... my own life experience has shown otherwise and I've probably had some bargains that those people would have missed out on). I just tried to find the listing again and it seems to have disappeared - I feel it might have been a scam. I enjoy using eBay as a buyer, been using it for 10 years and hundreds of purchases, only sold a few times but it's always been ok for me. There have been a few hiccoughs but I've always found some kind of resolution in the end. If the purchase is even slightly significant I check the seller's feedback out carefully. Really I think that's all that needs to be done but some people either don't know this, can't be bothered to, or don't want to spend their time in that way.

eBay is just craigslist, but you have to hand over your money before you can tell whether they're a scammer.

gowld 8y ago

Nah, you have to hand over your goods before you can tell whether the buyer is a scammer.

xfer 8y ago
How do you scam as a buyer, when you have to pay the money beforehand? Are you talking about stolen cards?
- maddyboo 8y ago
  eBay/PayPal almost always sides with the buyer in disputes. It's relatively common for a buyer to purchase e.g. a DSLR and return it as "defective", mailing back a box of rocks to the seller.
  - brian_cunnie 8y ago
    I beg to differ. In my experience (a small sample set of 1), Ebay sided with me, the seller, and not the buyer. A gentleman from Italy purchased an old book I was selling. He disputed the transaction, saying the book had never arrived; however, the Italian post said they had delivered the book. eBay sided with me. I kept the seller's money.
    - mehrdadn 8y ago
      I mean at that point when the post office agrees they had the package, they literally cannot logically blame you, because you could not have had any fault in this decision. What else were you supposed to do, fly over and hand it over to them in person? The onus can only logically be on the receiver to make sure they get the package the post office delivers, not on you. I understand the trouble starts when there's plausible deniability and no witness around. How do you prove they shipped rocks? How do they prove they didn't? At that point it really could be either person's fault, and their policy seems to be to blame it on the seller. That's what people mean when they say eBay "always" sides with the buyer. They don't mean that this is literally true even when it clearly doesn't make sense.
    - Double_a_92 8y ago
      What could the buyer do at that point if you had send him rocks?
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - adamqureshi 8y ago
    Yup. PP will freeze your whole transaction without notice if the buyer flags you for any reason without explanation and you can forget arbitration. Good Lucky.
- pfisch 8y ago
  You dispute the transaction and always win.
- cellularmitosis 8y ago
  "It arrived in broken condition, I want a refund", etc, I'd imagine.
- NeedMoreTea 8y ago
  Another commonly reported one is paying for an item by Paypal then collecting. Once you have the goods you report the item as undelivered[0]. eBay ask for proof of delivery that you can't supply, so automatically refund. Has been happening for years, but has become more prevalent recently. Last time I risked selling on eBay I spent a good part of the listing opting out of eBay Ts&Cs: Cash only, collection only, Paypal will be instantly refunded etc. Probably meant eBay could have cancelled the listing, but it worked. [0] https://community.ebay.co.uk/t5/Seller-Central/Ebay-Paypal-Collection-scam/m-p/5894309 https://community.ebay.co.uk/t5/Seller-Central/Ebay-Paypal-C... (INR=Item Not Received)
  - voltagex_ 8y ago
    Proof of delivery? Registered mail or even tracking will do it (at least in Australia, dunno what Royal Mail give you). I can send a package that requires a signature at the other end.
    - NeedMoreTea 8y ago
      That's if you send it, when there's a few different services with proof of delivery and some with insurance. I was calling out when the buyer visits your house/premises and collects in person, then claims to eBay the item was not received.
      - Spivak 8y ago
        I'm not saying it should be this adversarial, but why not take a few photos with the buyer and the goods, them have them inspect the goods and sign a form with the date they received it and and a report on the condition? I wouldn't think it's that weird since anyone who's rented an apartment has to do the same.
  - dboreham 8y ago
    Always ship with tracking, proof of receipt and insurance to cover the transaction value plus any out of pocket expenses.
- anonymous5133 8y ago
  "I never received the item" Then file a refund request. Ebay will eventually refund it if the seller can't provide a tracking. You can also spin it any number of other ways like if you get the item and the seller requests you to return the item then you just ship back a broken version.

noitsnot 8y ago

Ah, so Amazon is like eBay, but with new merchandise.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

mehrdadn 8y ago

No, there's a pretty darn crucial difference which is the reviews/reputation that you can view before you conduct the transaction. Someone with 5192 sells and 99% good reviews is probably not going to outright eat your money, but you have no idea if that's the type of person you're dealing with if you're using craigslist.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
adamqureshi 8y ago
but can they "game" those fake reviews? we live in a world of fake news and fake reviews. Craigslist is a start up for scammers.
- mehrdadn 8y ago
  No, I don't think they can. They can "game" maybe 15 reviews, but I have yet to be scammed by (or even hear of someone being scammed by) someone with thousands of reviews when they're almost all positive. It's kind of absurd to suggest the system is similar to that of craigslist where you generally have no data points whatsoever.
- 0xcde4c3db 8y ago
  I seem to remember that the old-school method was to auction off a bunch of small-ticket items like shareware/freeware CDs, bumper stickers, etc. to build up positive reviews.
  - secabeen 8y ago
    You can do that, but you can't do that and have an account creation date that's 10+ years ago with 10k+ positive reviews,
- firmgently 8y ago
  Something I heard about recently was businesses offering to buy accounts from legit users, priced based on how old the account is and % rating. Obviously that's something that could be abused by a scammer (buy trustworthy account and sell as many empty laptop boxes as you can before you get closed down). I think it was ads popping up on FB asking to buy eBay accounts that made me aware of it but can't find anything right now on a quick Google search. A couple of days ago I saw some tablets being sold for about 1/10th of their normal price by a seller with an old account and good feedback. But looking into it more I found that their only current sales listings were duplicates of the same tablet offer, and looking at past feedback it was mainly buys rather than sells and usually for household items and stuff that seemed personal rather than business related. Not exactly conclusive but it smelt funny enough that I didn't risk a purchase (I realise lots of people will just say that the low price makes it obvious, too good to be true means it isn't true etc... my own life experience has shown otherwise and I've probably had some bargains that those people would have missed out on). I just tried to find the listing again and it seems to have disappeared - I feel it might have been a scam. I enjoy using eBay as a buyer, been using it for 10 years and hundreds of purchases, only sold a few times but it's always been ok for me. There have been a few hiccoughs but I've always found some kind of resolution in the end. If the purchase is even slightly significant I check the seller's feedback out carefully. Really I think that's all that needs to be done but some people either don't know this, can't be bothered to, or don't want to spend their time in that way.