4 ms·

I disagree. If you hang around The Mattress Underground, where lots of mattress aficionados and professional sellers post, you will quickly become aware that mo

by nextos 8y ago

I disagree. If you hang around The Mattress Underground, where lots of mattress aficionados and professional sellers post, you will quickly become aware that most beds are pretty mediocre and overpriced. There's lots of in-depth discussion on their internals, and it's pretty disappointing. It's not surprising, as there's a lot of information asymmetry in the bed market. Customers don't have a good understanding of internals, and manufacturers deliberately augment confusion by producing under tons of sub-brands and models. Furthermore, at least in the US, sells are carried on a 1-by-1 basis where the salesman tries to extract buyer's reserve price. I've spent a few years optimizing the core objects in my life, and my bed is for obvious reasons on the top of the list. To cut a long story short, I tested dozens of beds, bought a high end nordic bed (Hästens) and a natural latex one. Both were good. But, like the OP, I've eventually settled on a custom design. A very different one, though. IMHO, the most healthy option is a thin soft core on top of a hard surface. I also prioritized natural and washable materials. I ended up with a pad made of felt wood panels on top of a modular wooden base. A huge unintended bonus of this design is how easy it is to pack and move around. I can disassemble and carry my bed effortlessly. It's also pretty cheap and durable. And I can disassemble it and put each pad in my washing machine! A good heuristic is that most high quality items are custom made niche things. Either made by you or, usually, by specialized artisans or engineers. I've seen the internals of some beds costing a few grand. Not pretty. Laughable quality compared to the carefully felted panels I commissioned from a great mill. Same applies to industrial tees vs loopwheeled ones, or cheap plastic coats vs ventile. In the PC world, an equivalent would be some bad quality box with horrible thermal paste and mediocre cooling vs a custom Calyos build.

almata 8y ago
Did you explain your thoughts about the ideal mattress some time ago maybe? I'd say I already read those same arguments before and found them extremely interesting.
- nextos 8y ago
  Thanks. I did post a few short comments. Mattresses are something we do totally wrong. We could have much more ergonomic designs that were also affordable, washable, less bulky and recyclable.
MiddleEndian 8y ago
Glad to see another enthusiast even if our approaches differ.
- nextos 8y ago
  Thanks. Your setup seems very well thought. Keep up the good work.
  - MiddleEndian 8y ago
    You too!
fellowniusmonk 8y ago
do you have pictures or material lists, I want to make this bed.
owenversteeg 8y ago
Great to see someone that took the time to do the research! If I may ask, what's your opinion of my DIY mattress? Mine just consists of two 12x100x200cm pieces of PU foam cut into a triangle shape (I live on a boat.) The 12cm thick PU foam rests on some wooden slats. The foam has 25kg/m3 density and 4kPa compressive strength, if that matters. My girlfriend and I both find it very comfortable, and all the guests I've had also like it. What do you think? Are there any hidden risks here that I'm not seeing, or reasons to evaluate the mattress on factors other than comfort? E.x. potential health risks (back problems???) Thanks!
- nextos 8y ago
  Sounds good to me. 12 cm is not very thick, so I assume it's quite firm yet comfortable enough to side-sleep? I don't like foams too much because they tend to release VOCs. But I reckon that a boat might be more humid than a regular home, so it might be tricky to get other materials to work well except wool, horsehair or kapok. Perhaps you could find a Hästens shop near you, walk there and try one of their 8 cm horsehair toppers (TM8) without a bed. Don't buy it. It's a good product but really insanely overpriced. It will give you a good idea of how a thin custom wool mattress will feel, though. These will compress a bit more than foam, but they also breathe more which might be an advantage during warm weather. Are you Flemish or Dutch? If so, there should be a few shops close to you.
  - owenversteeg 8y ago
    It's actually not firm at all! Very squishy. You do sink in slightly. You wouldn't be worried about back issues with something made entirely of soft foam? FWIW it's very comfortable night after night and I don't run into any back pain, but I'm still young, so maybe that'll take time to manifest itself? Back issues are my main worry. And yes, boats are generally more humid than most homes - especially when left alone, they get extremely humid. And yes, I am Dutch, I guess you could tell by my username :) I'll have to check out a Hastens sometime.
    - nextos 8y ago
germinalphrase 8y ago
Are you able to comfortably side sleep? How thick is you wool mattress?
- nextos 8y ago
  It's around 7-8 cm. I usually add a folded wool blanket on my side. This setup is very comfortable for side sleeping and back sleeping. I also found it key to use a small buckwheat pillow. If you side sleep, a very good alternative and cheap setup is a buckwheat mattress. I'm quite light (~75 kg) so heavier people should probably have a few extra cm. Wool compresses a lot and requires periodic shaking to keep shape.
dflock 8y ago
I'd be very interested in a writeup on your custom bed - but failing that, a picture of if would be great, if possible. Thanks!
Stratoscope 8y ago
> felt wood panels Since it's too late for you to edit, can you confirm if my guess is right that you meant "felt wool panels"?
- nextos 8y ago
  Yes, that's right, sorry for the typo.
Simon_says 8y ago
As I recall, there's a lot of sketchiness surrounding mattress sales, with manufacturers paying for fake reviews. Do you think The Mattress Underground is a good resource, considering this?
cjhopman 8y ago
Did you read the article? Did you not notice the quality of this bed? I mean, I don't mean to shit on the article. The article itself is awesome, and I love taking this hacker mindset to other aspects of our lives. And writing a good article about it flexes a different, valuable skill. But if I ordered a mattress from a company and got this, I'd be (justifiably) upset.
lsc 8y ago
>A good heuristic is that most high quality items are custom made niche things. e. See, I just don't think this is true. When you get something custom, you get to tune a lot more parameters than when you buy COTS, and if you know exactly what you want, and if that is different from what is generally available, that can be super valuable. But usually, the more custom a thing is, the more likely it is to have quality issues. When you want a one-off, you usually pay either in terms of more money or worse quality control (often, as in the case of rare cars, both) I mean, it can still be totally worth it, but if you buy a hand-built Ferarri because you think it will be more reliable than a mass-produced Toyota, you are likely going to be disappointed. (I mean, a hand built supercar has a lot of qualities... reliability tends to not be one of them.)

by nextos 8y ago

almata 8y ago

Did you explain your thoughts about the ideal mattress some time ago maybe? I'd say I already read those same arguments before and found them extremely interesting.

nextos 8y ago
Thanks. I did post a few short comments. Mattresses are something we do totally wrong. We could have much more ergonomic designs that were also affordable, washable, less bulky and recyclable.

MiddleEndian 8y ago

Glad to see another enthusiast even if our approaches differ.

nextos 8y ago
Thanks. Your setup seems very well thought. Keep up the good work.
- MiddleEndian 8y ago
  You too!

fellowniusmonk 8y ago

do you have pictures or material lists, I want to make this bed.

owenversteeg 8y ago

Great to see someone that took the time to do the research! If I may ask, what's your opinion of my DIY mattress? Mine just consists of two 12x100x200cm pieces of PU foam cut into a triangle shape (I live on a boat.) The 12cm thick PU foam rests on some wooden slats. The foam has 25kg/m3 density and 4kPa compressive strength, if that matters. My girlfriend and I both find it very comfortable, and all the guests I've had also like it. What do you think? Are there any hidden risks here that I'm not seeing, or reasons to evaluate the mattress on factors other than comfort? E.x. potential health risks (back problems???) Thanks!

nextos 8y ago
Sounds good to me. 12 cm is not very thick, so I assume it's quite firm yet comfortable enough to side-sleep? I don't like foams too much because they tend to release VOCs. But I reckon that a boat might be more humid than a regular home, so it might be tricky to get other materials to work well except wool, horsehair or kapok. Perhaps you could find a Hästens shop near you, walk there and try one of their 8 cm horsehair toppers (TM8) without a bed. Don't buy it. It's a good product but really insanely overpriced. It will give you a good idea of how a thin custom wool mattress will feel, though. These will compress a bit more than foam, but they also breathe more which might be an advantage during warm weather. Are you Flemish or Dutch? If so, there should be a few shops close to you.
- owenversteeg 8y ago
  It's actually not firm at all! Very squishy. You do sink in slightly. You wouldn't be worried about back issues with something made entirely of soft foam? FWIW it's very comfortable night after night and I don't run into any back pain, but I'm still young, so maybe that'll take time to manifest itself? Back issues are my main worry. And yes, boats are generally more humid than most homes - especially when left alone, they get extremely humid. And yes, I am Dutch, I guess you could tell by my username :) I'll have to check out a Hastens sometime.
  - nextos 8y ago

germinalphrase 8y ago

Are you able to comfortably side sleep? How thick is you wool mattress?

nextos 8y ago
It's around 7-8 cm. I usually add a folded wool blanket on my side. This setup is very comfortable for side sleeping and back sleeping. I also found it key to use a small buckwheat pillow. If you side sleep, a very good alternative and cheap setup is a buckwheat mattress. I'm quite light (~75 kg) so heavier people should probably have a few extra cm. Wool compresses a lot and requires periodic shaking to keep shape.

dflock 8y ago

I'd be very interested in a writeup on your custom bed - but failing that, a picture of if would be great, if possible. Thanks!

Stratoscope 8y ago

> felt wood panels Since it's too late for you to edit, can you confirm if my guess is right that you meant "felt wool panels"?

nextos 8y ago
Yes, that's right, sorry for the typo.

Simon_says 8y ago

As I recall, there's a lot of sketchiness surrounding mattress sales, with manufacturers paying for fake reviews. Do you think The Mattress Underground is a good resource, considering this?

cjhopman 8y ago

Did you read the article? Did you not notice the quality of this bed? I mean, I don't mean to shit on the article. The article itself is awesome, and I love taking this hacker mindset to other aspects of our lives. And writing a good article about it flexes a different, valuable skill. But if I ordered a mattress from a company and got this, I'd be (justifiably) upset.

lsc 8y ago

>A good heuristic is that most high quality items are custom made niche things. e. See, I just don't think this is true. When you get something custom, you get to tune a lot more parameters than when you buy COTS, and if you know exactly what you want, and if that is different from what is generally available, that can be super valuable. But usually, the more custom a thing is, the more likely it is to have quality issues. When you want a one-off, you usually pay either in terms of more money or worse quality control (often, as in the case of rare cars, both) I mean, it can still be totally worth it, but if you buy a hand-built Ferarri because you think it will be more reliable than a mass-produced Toyota, you are likely going to be disappointed. (I mean, a hand built supercar has a lot of qualities... reliability tends to not be one of them.)