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I would think so, for an advanced enough civilization certainly you could expect to see something like Bracewell probes getting sent out to go say hi without sp

by neaden 8y ago

I would think so, for an advanced enough civilization certainly you could expect to see something like Bracewell probes getting sent out to go say hi without spending too many resources.

Retric 8y ago
Sending 1 probe might be low resources. Try sending 1 probe to every star ever 10,000 years. Because without that the odds of any probe being near us is rather limited. As to self replicating probes that's freaking dangerous. Get something wrong and the universe becomes a very hostile place. PS: In terms of cost consider the % of humanity's GDP spent on SETI projects. Now consider those at least have the possibility of some benefit in your lifetime. Extra Solar probes are unlikely to get much in the way of resource investment from most civilizations.
bena 8y ago
He said "for the purposes of colonization". That means sending people out. We would be sending people on one-way trips, for better or worse. You'd likely never hear from them again. As to just sending out Bracewells to say "Hi", why? Once again, the return on a response is very long and not guaranteed. And without a response, what's the point?
- neaden 8y ago
  They said for the purpose of colonization, but that is not actually required for the Fermi Paradox. As to why, that's impossible to say without speculating about alien psychologies. Just to know you aren't alone, because it's interesting to learn about others, to trade technology, philosophy, science, and media are all potential reasons. The big point is this wouldn't even have to be common. If just one alien civilization sent out a Bracewell probe a century but started back when the dinosaurs were around they could have launched a million probes by now.
  - jandrese 8y ago
    The Fermi paradox does require colonization. Part of the assumption is exponential growth because you're colonizing every star system within X light years and then building up civilization to the point where it can send out another set of colonizers to everything within X light years of that. The point was that the galaxy should be filled with whomever figured out how to colonize distant star systems, even if it takes a 10,000 years for a colony world to get to the point where it can send out the next wave of interstellar colonizers, that's a drop in the bucket for a galaxy that is billions of years old.
  - bena 8y ago
    > Just to know you aren't alone Which requires the probe to return information. > because it's interesting to learn about others Which requires the probe to return information. > to trade technology, philosophy, science, and media All of which, and say it with me, requires the probe to return information. At the speed of light, that return will take four years from the nearest star. > If just one alien civilization sent out a Bracewell probe a century but started back when the dinosaurs were around they could have launched a million probes by now. And if 'if' were a skiff, we'd all take a boat ride. What is the benefit of launching one such probe? Especially knowing that your next launch is in 100 years. Voyager, after about 40 years, is just barely out of our solar system. Voyager is broadcasting at 19 watts and we're barely getting that signal here. And it takes 16 hours. So instead of contemplating what would happen if hypothetical civilizations with hypothetical technology would do for hypothetical reasons, think about what we can and would do right now with our technology.
- thret 8y ago
  Not if an intelligent alien race is immortal.
- Retra 8y ago
  >That means sending people out. "People" can be made pretty small if all you're sending is DNA and robots to grow them.

by neaden 8y ago

I would think so, for an advanced enough civilization certainly you could expect to see something like Bracewell probes getting sent out to go say hi without spending too many resources.

Retric 8y ago

Sending 1 probe might be low resources. Try sending 1 probe to every star ever 10,000 years. Because without that the odds of any probe being near us is rather limited. As to self replicating probes that's freaking dangerous. Get something wrong and the universe becomes a very hostile place. PS: In terms of cost consider the % of humanity's GDP spent on SETI projects. Now consider those at least have the possibility of some benefit in your lifetime. Extra Solar probes are unlikely to get much in the way of resource investment from most civilizations.

bena 8y ago

He said "for the purposes of colonization". That means sending people out. We would be sending people on one-way trips, for better or worse. You'd likely never hear from them again. As to just sending out Bracewells to say "Hi", why? Once again, the return on a response is very long and not guaranteed. And without a response, what's the point?

neaden 8y ago
They said for the purpose of colonization, but that is not actually required for the Fermi Paradox. As to why, that's impossible to say without speculating about alien psychologies. Just to know you aren't alone, because it's interesting to learn about others, to trade technology, philosophy, science, and media are all potential reasons. The big point is this wouldn't even have to be common. If just one alien civilization sent out a Bracewell probe a century but started back when the dinosaurs were around they could have launched a million probes by now.
- jandrese 8y ago
  The Fermi paradox does require colonization. Part of the assumption is exponential growth because you're colonizing every star system within X light years and then building up civilization to the point where it can send out another set of colonizers to everything within X light years of that. The point was that the galaxy should be filled with whomever figured out how to colonize distant star systems, even if it takes a 10,000 years for a colony world to get to the point where it can send out the next wave of interstellar colonizers, that's a drop in the bucket for a galaxy that is billions of years old.
- bena 8y ago
  > Just to know you aren't alone Which requires the probe to return information. > because it's interesting to learn about others Which requires the probe to return information. > to trade technology, philosophy, science, and media All of which, and say it with me, requires the probe to return information. At the speed of light, that return will take four years from the nearest star. > If just one alien civilization sent out a Bracewell probe a century but started back when the dinosaurs were around they could have launched a million probes by now. And if 'if' were a skiff, we'd all take a boat ride. What is the benefit of launching one such probe? Especially knowing that your next launch is in 100 years. Voyager, after about 40 years, is just barely out of our solar system. Voyager is broadcasting at 19 watts and we're barely getting that signal here. And it takes 16 hours. So instead of contemplating what would happen if hypothetical civilizations with hypothetical technology would do for hypothetical reasons, think about what we can and would do right now with our technology.
thret 8y ago
Not if an intelligent alien race is immortal.
Retra 8y ago
>That means sending people out. "People" can be made pretty small if all you're sending is DNA and robots to grow them.