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In the same way, you won't get back the space taken by recovery partition on a random laptop. It's there for a reason - to get the device back to the same stat

In the same way, you won't get back the space taken by recovery partition on a random laptop. It's there for a reason - to get the device back to the same state as it left the factory. If you could remove random apks from there, that objective would be impossible. So on Android devices, the /system partition is read-only intentionally. The space taken by it at least has a use during both runtime and recovery; traditionally the recovery is completely wasted space. What I do mind thought, is the Android vendor's ability to prevent user disabling their apps, and abusing it. There's no reason why I should keep Samsung's (for example) showelware enabled.

StudentStuff 8y ago
Shovelware shouldn't be in the system partition, plain and simple. Its a bad industry practice, even on Laptops (which do let you delete the recovery partition FYI).
- vetinari 8y ago
  On (unlocked) mobiles, you can re-partition the device and write /system image without the apps you don't want too. Few users will bother, just like few users will bother with deleting the recovery partitions on laptops.
  - MrLeap 8y ago
    By request, I've done this for friends and family a few times. Few users bother because it's made arbitrarily difficult so as to seem dangerous to many non IT professionals. Sony has been getting more and more aggressive shoveling garbage down my throat via the playstation 4 funnel. I can't imagine ever giving them another dime as a result. Hopefully they'll keep going until they cross most people's line so the door can swing the other way.
    - vetinari 8y ago
      With the ARM platform, resizing the partitions comes with significant risk if something goes wrong. In the PC-land, the equivalent would be the potential of losing your BIOS/UEFI. Many people would then think twice about repartitioning. PC repartitioning only looks dangerous, because ordinary users are not aware where they put their data, and changing partitions and resizing filesystems is a nice way to loose at least some of them. I don't own PS4, so I cannot comment on that. I do own Xperia phone thought, and I'm satisfied with it.
  - StudentStuff 8y ago
    Stateside, most phones ship with locked bootloaders. Most models never see their bootloader get unlocked, because all the development interest goes towards the flagship phones from Samsung and LG.
    - vetinari 8y ago
      The locked status and unlockability, is being done on request of carriers. Because they order thousands of pieces, they get to say what those pieces should do. If you do not agree, get your stuff elsewhere, the carriers will get the memo eventually. Yes, I know that you would have to pay the full price, and with carriers you don't have to, but then the locked status and customized firmware comes as a part of the price for the convenience.
toast0 8y ago
I don't know how big the unremovable version of google play services is in most roms, but the currently installed version on my phone is 400MB. I'm guessing that means it takes 20% of the storage on a low end 4GB phone. When the recovery images on computers were significant compared to the overall storage, they were more commonly included on separate discs, or a utility was present for the owner to archive the recovery image onto discs locally and then remove it and expand the visible partition. Since the apps are all going to be updated shortly after unboxing anyway, it would be better for the user to just include a stub downloader for most things. Enough of google play services to update the services to current and offer (but not force) install the rest of the "essential" apps. Plus a small basic browser; Chrome is 177 MB on my phone.
- StudentStuff 8y ago
  Most low end phones are shipping with at least 8GB of storage, but up to 7GB of that is eaten by the system partition usually, giving you effectively no space.
  - toast0 8y ago
    Maybe low end phones in the US are shipping with 8GB; low end phones in lower income markets still only have 4GB. (See the recent articles about life with a Bharat 2)

StudentStuff 8y ago

Shovelware shouldn't be in the system partition, plain and simple. Its a bad industry practice, even on Laptops (which do let you delete the recovery partition FYI).

vetinari 8y ago
On (unlocked) mobiles, you can re-partition the device and write /system image without the apps you don't want too. Few users will bother, just like few users will bother with deleting the recovery partitions on laptops.
- MrLeap 8y ago
  By request, I've done this for friends and family a few times. Few users bother because it's made arbitrarily difficult so as to seem dangerous to many non IT professionals. Sony has been getting more and more aggressive shoveling garbage down my throat via the playstation 4 funnel. I can't imagine ever giving them another dime as a result. Hopefully they'll keep going until they cross most people's line so the door can swing the other way.
  - vetinari 8y ago
    With the ARM platform, resizing the partitions comes with significant risk if something goes wrong. In the PC-land, the equivalent would be the potential of losing your BIOS/UEFI. Many people would then think twice about repartitioning. PC repartitioning only looks dangerous, because ordinary users are not aware where they put their data, and changing partitions and resizing filesystems is a nice way to loose at least some of them. I don't own PS4, so I cannot comment on that. I do own Xperia phone thought, and I'm satisfied with it.
- StudentStuff 8y ago
  Stateside, most phones ship with locked bootloaders. Most models never see their bootloader get unlocked, because all the development interest goes towards the flagship phones from Samsung and LG.
  - vetinari 8y ago
    The locked status and unlockability, is being done on request of carriers. Because they order thousands of pieces, they get to say what those pieces should do. If you do not agree, get your stuff elsewhere, the carriers will get the memo eventually. Yes, I know that you would have to pay the full price, and with carriers you don't have to, but then the locked status and customized firmware comes as a part of the price for the convenience.

toast0 8y ago

I don't know how big the unremovable version of google play services is in most roms, but the currently installed version on my phone is 400MB. I'm guessing that means it takes 20% of the storage on a low end 4GB phone. When the recovery images on computers were significant compared to the overall storage, they were more commonly included on separate discs, or a utility was present for the owner to archive the recovery image onto discs locally and then remove it and expand the visible partition. Since the apps are all going to be updated shortly after unboxing anyway, it would be better for the user to just include a stub downloader for most things. Enough of google play services to update the services to current and offer (but not force) install the rest of the "essential" apps. Plus a small basic browser; Chrome is 177 MB on my phone.

StudentStuff 8y ago
Most low end phones are shipping with at least 8GB of storage, but up to 7GB of that is eaten by the system partition usually, giving you effectively no space.
- toast0 8y ago
  Maybe low end phones in the US are shipping with 8GB; low end phones in lower income markets still only have 4GB. (See the recent articles about life with a Bharat 2)