4 ms·

Couldn't those guys' track of success be due to cronyism in the music industry? Their songs are formulaic. I'm sure many of these 2 guys' songs are played in

by gt2 8y ago

Couldn't those guys' track of success be due to cronyism in the music industry? Their songs are formulaic. I'm sure many of these 2 guys' songs are played in this video that cycles through a long list of hit songs which have the same progression (transposed into the same key so the similarities can more easily be noticed) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOlDewpCfZQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOlDewpCfZQ So perhaps anyone can write the songs, but not everyone has access to the pop stars (or access to these 2 guys). I'm not an expert song writer myself, but I am a musician and lover of music. Based on the fact that there's awesome music noone's ever heard of or that doesn't get as much play as some lesser quality music, I have to echo the common sentiment that the music industry is a fashion show/popularity contest with gatekeepers (still). Not saying it's not all a sham, I think the difference that comes from the human performing is huge, and I love to see and hear that.

mattnewton 8y ago
I think there may be some gatekeeping but also I think there really is a formula that more people like- and by taking ideas and tweaking them to sound sweeter and more energetic you get more sales. The bigs guys are just walking around and either signing talent to produce ideas for the pop-filter-Machine, or stealing their riffs wholesale.
- scarface74 8y ago
  Where is the gate keeping? Anyone can get their music on iTunes, Spotify, etc. by going through a company like CD Baby. Getting noticed on the other hand is harder. I don’t know how it works with pop music, but hip hop artists have a long history of selling CDs out of a trunk, marketing through barber shops, etc. and going around the establishment until they get noticed.
tabtab 8y ago
I have to admit I find many of those Martin & Gottwald tunes "catchy" for whatever reason. Cronyism alone can't create catchiness. Hard to argue with success. Bring on the cheese! Note that many tunes which use the common pop chord progressions also fail.
- soundwave106 8y ago
  In my opinion the "big pop guys" you mention are: A) Fantastic producers -- the production from these guys is phenomenal, and IMHO this is what really "makes the song". B) Great at writing to a formula. The tunes are "catchy" but I cannot think of anything that would be considered really innovative musically. There's no sin in that necessarily... it certainly takes talent to "know what works" and "know what doesn't"... and for the type of pop music they do (largely teen pop and other pop formulas), formula is fine. I will say that pop producers like these guys tend to be really solid in the groove / rhythm department, in particular. C) Great at artistic collaboration... big pop outfits now write in large groups. Knowing the way many musicians are, that's an accomplishment in itself. :) This probably contributes to the "solid song that isn't innovative" aspect... all the left-fieldisms of an artist are probably smoothed out. But again, this pop. Overall the music product is a professional creation, designed for a market that always was and always will be half song-and-dance youth fashion show as one of the posters alluded to. :) Not a music style I care for personally. But a popular one, and it takes something to do it as well as these guys do.
  - tabtab 8y ago
    Re: "[not] really innovative musically." Innovation is hard to objectively measure. I judge most music by whether I enjoy it, not how "innovative" it is. Innovation is nice, but "like" is much better. Most styles are cyclical and borrow from the past. Disco-esque music has come back twice. Anything "new" is probably just borrowing bits and pieces from different eras. If it were easy, anybody with money would make a hit. If they make a catchy song, I give them kudos regardless of how they made their sausage. To quote a pop song: "Shuddup and dance!"
    - dragonwriter 8y ago
      > If it were easy, anybody with money would make a hit. But anyone with money and the right relationship with the distribution gatekeepers pretty much does.
      - 8y ago

by gt2 8y ago

mattnewton 8y ago

I think there may be some gatekeeping but also I think there really is a formula that more people like- and by taking ideas and tweaking them to sound sweeter and more energetic you get more sales. The bigs guys are just walking around and either signing talent to produce ideas for the pop-filter-Machine, or stealing their riffs wholesale.

scarface74 8y ago
Where is the gate keeping? Anyone can get their music on iTunes, Spotify, etc. by going through a company like CD Baby. Getting noticed on the other hand is harder. I don’t know how it works with pop music, but hip hop artists have a long history of selling CDs out of a trunk, marketing through barber shops, etc. and going around the establishment until they get noticed.

tabtab 8y ago

I have to admit I find many of those Martin & Gottwald tunes "catchy" for whatever reason. Cronyism alone can't create catchiness. Hard to argue with success. Bring on the cheese! Note that many tunes which use the common pop chord progressions also fail.

soundwave106 8y ago
In my opinion the "big pop guys" you mention are: A) Fantastic producers -- the production from these guys is phenomenal, and IMHO this is what really "makes the song". B) Great at writing to a formula. The tunes are "catchy" but I cannot think of anything that would be considered really innovative musically. There's no sin in that necessarily... it certainly takes talent to "know what works" and "know what doesn't"... and for the type of pop music they do (largely teen pop and other pop formulas), formula is fine. I will say that pop producers like these guys tend to be really solid in the groove / rhythm department, in particular. C) Great at artistic collaboration... big pop outfits now write in large groups. Knowing the way many musicians are, that's an accomplishment in itself. :) This probably contributes to the "solid song that isn't innovative" aspect... all the left-fieldisms of an artist are probably smoothed out. But again, this pop. Overall the music product is a professional creation, designed for a market that always was and always will be half song-and-dance youth fashion show as one of the posters alluded to. :) Not a music style I care for personally. But a popular one, and it takes something to do it as well as these guys do.
- tabtab 8y ago
  Re: "[not] really innovative musically." Innovation is hard to objectively measure. I judge most music by whether I enjoy it, not how "innovative" it is. Innovation is nice, but "like" is much better. Most styles are cyclical and borrow from the past. Disco-esque music has come back twice. Anything "new" is probably just borrowing bits and pieces from different eras. If it were easy, anybody with money would make a hit. If they make a catchy song, I give them kudos regardless of how they made their sausage. To quote a pop song: "Shuddup and dance!"
  - dragonwriter 8y ago
    > If it were easy, anybody with money would make a hit. But anyone with money and the right relationship with the distribution gatekeepers pretty much does.
    - 8y ago