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I've seen "What Happens When A Night Owl Is Forced To Live Like An Early Bird"[0] yesterday and wonder how it correlates with this. It basically says that 27%

by xtf 8y ago

I've seen "What Happens When A Night Owl Is Forced To Live Like An Early Bird"[0] yesterday and wonder how it correlates with this. It basically says that 27% of the population are night owls and are in an evolutionary sense our natural night watch and when forced into a daytime schedule, always tired. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kZVbE_coSA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kZVbE_coSA

TheAceOfHearts 8y ago
Rather tangential to this, but I've always had trouble getting up early and maintaining that schedule. A little over a month ago I changed my diet to reduce carbs as much as possible, and I've never felt so alert and awake. Waking up early went from a grueling task to something that just happens naturally. I know this is just one anecdote, but I wonder if some of the mentioned people might also benefit from trying different diets.
- slededit 8y ago
  whenever someone brings up the fact a sizeable portion of the population is forced into an unnatural sleep rythm; inevitably someone will chime in with a "I forced myself with method X and now I'm normal". It completely misses the underlying point.
  - fjsolwmv 8y ago
    Ignoring the terrible effects of carbs on health also misses the point. Parent didn't say anything about forcing.
  - naasking 8y ago
    I'm not sure it does. Their "natural" habits aren't necessarily all that natural either. For all you know, a diet change really did correct an underlying issue causing the strange habit.
    - slededit 8y ago
      We're talking about 1/5th of the population suffering needlessly. The comment I replied to merely reinforces the stereotype that there is something wrong with them - "If only you lived better you would get to sleep at a normal time". On its own, its great they have improved their life. But in context its disrespectful.
      - majewsky 8y ago
        If you're insulting a plausible opposing opinion as disrespectful, you should be backing up your claim with facts. You suggested that people are "naturally" night owls, the other side suggests that nightowlism may be caused by lifestyle choices and that many night owls are unaware of this causality. There is nothing disrespectful about either side of the argument, both are just hypotheses at this point (and a bit of anecdata).
        slededit 8y ago
        There is evidence of a genetic cause for night owlism: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/11/121116124551.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/11/121116124551.h... Further nobody questions the legitimacy of "early risers" and blames it on lifestyle. In fact most consider it a positive and something to aspire to. When you go your whole life having to dispel the initial impression of laziness due to your natural sleep rythmn it becomes personal. I'm fortunate that I've come to a place in my career where I can simply live with my natural rythmn, but most people don't get the chance.
        naasking 8y ago
        > Further nobody questions the legitimacy of "early risers" and blames it on lifestyle. Because being an early riser is adaptive. We're not at all well adapted to operating at night given our sensory apparatus, we're quite well adapted to operate in daylight. Furthermore, humans aren't genetically predetermined creatures, it's entirely possible to change virtually all of our behaviours and inclinations with the right environmental changes. Even if being a nightowl were adaptive at one point, that doesn't mean it's adaptive now, and a maladaptive behaviour needs correcting if you want to function in modern society. > When you go your whole life having to dispel the initial impression of laziness due to your natural sleep rythmn it becomes personal. Don't go pushing your personal prejudice on a factual discussion. No one here called "nightowls" lazy.
  - everdev 8y ago
    I naturally like to conserve energy and eat sugar but I can motivate myself to move and eat healthy to the point it becomes more natural. I think people are naturally predisposed to certain behaviors but it's not a sealed fate. Diet, exercise and environment might even be more dominant factors.
    - slededit 8y ago
      Having setup my life so I can simply sleep and rise naturally I'm living a perfectly normal and happy life - more productive than ever. There is nothing wrong with me and its not a terrible "fate". What is terrible is that we don't accept that some people have different sleep schedules.
      - everdev 8y ago
        Yeah, absolutely nothing wrong with being who you are. But I think there's nothing wrong with people who change their diet, exercise, environment, etc. to develop a new habit.
        slededit 8y ago
        Its not a "habit", its hard-coded and there is strong evidence that forcing your sleep schedule to change has negative health consequences. Underlying all this is an insinuation that if you just eat better and exercised you'd wake up at a normal time. Night owls do get exercise and eat healthily. This advice never seems to be applied to early risers, it comes from a cultural perception of night owls as defective.
        everdev 8y ago
        Maybe. I was a night owl for 30+ years, but then had the same experience as OC when my other habits changed my sleep cycle changed too without any of the grogginess and frustration I had before when I only tried to change my sleep pattern. Bodies are different though so no doubt our experiences may be very different.
inetknght 8y ago
I've noticed that my natural circadian cycle is typically between 28 to 32 hours long. I'm not sure if this is an environmental issue, mental issue, physical issue, or whatnot. But it's definitely a thing.
- wepple 8y ago
  Most animals have a cycle that’s a bit off of 24 hours, and I believe it’s quite pronounced in Humans, though I can’t remember exactly how much - 27 hours? Researchers tested it by living in a cave for a month. The day/night cycle is what trims us down to 24h.32 seems very well off though.

by xtf 8y ago

TheAceOfHearts 8y ago

Rather tangential to this, but I've always had trouble getting up early and maintaining that schedule. A little over a month ago I changed my diet to reduce carbs as much as possible, and I've never felt so alert and awake. Waking up early went from a grueling task to something that just happens naturally. I know this is just one anecdote, but I wonder if some of the mentioned people might also benefit from trying different diets.

slededit 8y ago
whenever someone brings up the fact a sizeable portion of the population is forced into an unnatural sleep rythm; inevitably someone will chime in with a "I forced myself with method X and now I'm normal". It completely misses the underlying point.
- fjsolwmv 8y ago
  Ignoring the terrible effects of carbs on health also misses the point. Parent didn't say anything about forcing.
- naasking 8y ago
  I'm not sure it does. Their "natural" habits aren't necessarily all that natural either. For all you know, a diet change really did correct an underlying issue causing the strange habit.
  - slededit 8y ago
    We're talking about 1/5th of the population suffering needlessly. The comment I replied to merely reinforces the stereotype that there is something wrong with them - "If only you lived better you would get to sleep at a normal time". On its own, its great they have improved their life. But in context its disrespectful.
    - majewsky 8y ago
      If you're insulting a plausible opposing opinion as disrespectful, you should be backing up your claim with facts. You suggested that people are "naturally" night owls, the other side suggests that nightowlism may be caused by lifestyle choices and that many night owls are unaware of this causality. There is nothing disrespectful about either side of the argument, both are just hypotheses at this point (and a bit of anecdata).
      - slededit 8y ago
        There is evidence of a genetic cause for night owlism: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/11/121116124551.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/11/121116124551.h... Further nobody questions the legitimacy of "early risers" and blames it on lifestyle. In fact most consider it a positive and something to aspire to. When you go your whole life having to dispel the initial impression of laziness due to your natural sleep rythmn it becomes personal. I'm fortunate that I've come to a place in my career where I can simply live with my natural rythmn, but most people don't get the chance.
        naasking 8y ago
        > Further nobody questions the legitimacy of "early risers" and blames it on lifestyle. Because being an early riser is adaptive. We're not at all well adapted to operating at night given our sensory apparatus, we're quite well adapted to operate in daylight. Furthermore, humans aren't genetically predetermined creatures, it's entirely possible to change virtually all of our behaviours and inclinations with the right environmental changes. Even if being a nightowl were adaptive at one point, that doesn't mean it's adaptive now, and a maladaptive behaviour needs correcting if you want to function in modern society. > When you go your whole life having to dispel the initial impression of laziness due to your natural sleep rythmn it becomes personal. Don't go pushing your personal prejudice on a factual discussion. No one here called "nightowls" lazy.
- everdev 8y ago
  I naturally like to conserve energy and eat sugar but I can motivate myself to move and eat healthy to the point it becomes more natural. I think people are naturally predisposed to certain behaviors but it's not a sealed fate. Diet, exercise and environment might even be more dominant factors.
  - slededit 8y ago
    Having setup my life so I can simply sleep and rise naturally I'm living a perfectly normal and happy life - more productive than ever. There is nothing wrong with me and its not a terrible "fate". What is terrible is that we don't accept that some people have different sleep schedules.
    - everdev 8y ago
      Yeah, absolutely nothing wrong with being who you are. But I think there's nothing wrong with people who change their diet, exercise, environment, etc. to develop a new habit.
      - slededit 8y ago
        Its not a "habit", its hard-coded and there is strong evidence that forcing your sleep schedule to change has negative health consequences. Underlying all this is an insinuation that if you just eat better and exercised you'd wake up at a normal time. Night owls do get exercise and eat healthily. This advice never seems to be applied to early risers, it comes from a cultural perception of night owls as defective.
        everdev 8y ago
        Maybe. I was a night owl for 30+ years, but then had the same experience as OC when my other habits changed my sleep cycle changed too without any of the grogginess and frustration I had before when I only tried to change my sleep pattern. Bodies are different though so no doubt our experiences may be very different.

inetknght 8y ago

I've noticed that my natural circadian cycle is typically between 28 to 32 hours long. I'm not sure if this is an environmental issue, mental issue, physical issue, or whatnot. But it's definitely a thing.

wepple 8y ago
Most animals have a cycle that’s a bit off of 24 hours, and I believe it’s quite pronounced in Humans, though I can’t remember exactly how much - 27 hours? Researchers tested it by living in a cave for a month. The day/night cycle is what trims us down to 24h.32 seems very well off though.