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Very slightly off topic but I actually think how Android handles default apps is the best of both worlds. It comes with very very good default Google Apps that

Very slightly off topic but I actually think how Android handles default apps is the best of both worlds. It comes with very very good default Google Apps that work well together but it is very easy to switch out whatever you want for an alternative. How iOS handles it is the opposite. For their default apps they either straight out not allow competitors, severely limit what their competitors or (if I remember correctly) they even removed apps when a newer iOS added Apple's own version so they were now "competing". I know that anti-trust laws are probably not applicable as Apple does have a dominant position based on total market share, but to me this practice seems far more anti-competitive. Banning competitors seems worse than fully allowing competitors but providing your own as default that can easily be changed.

SiempreViernes 8y ago
Could you please tell me how I can uninstall the default apps, or at least keep them from constantly updating themselves? That half a gig of unwanted apps that just keeps growing itself is pretty annoying.
- theBobBob 8y ago
  True, that bit is a bit annoying, but again, not being able to switch out or uninstall default apps is much worse than just not being able to uninstall default apps.
- andyjohnson0 8y ago
  Default apps are often built-in and can't be uninstalled. But you can disable them. See https://support.google.com/googleplay/answer/2521768 https://support.google.com/googleplay/answer/2521768 for details. If you do this then it's worth uninstalling any updates to the app first, to free-up some space.
  - petecox 8y ago
    The apps are typically installed to a read-only System partition. With 'root' access, it's possible to remove them via a superuser app or adb - or it used to be the case.
- tssva 8y ago
  In settings go to apps, select the app you wish to stop updating and then select disable. All updates to the app will be removed and the app will no longer update.
bendiksolheim 8y ago
Do you have a source for this? I can’t remember Apple disallowing an app because Apple itself provides a similar app. I checked the default apps quickly on my phone, and can find several competitors for all of them. If you are talking about the "apps" Messages.app or Phone.app then I guess you might be right if we define "not providing a public API" the same as "disallowing on the App Store".
- rhodysurf 8y ago
  You can’t choose what happens is the default on an iPhone. If I want to use Gmail to open mailto links I cannot. If I want to use chrome to open web links by default, I cannot. On Android you can pick whatever apps you want as the default.
  - bendiksolheim 8y ago
    I might have misunderstood what theBobBob meant with "default apps" completely, but that was not how I understood it at all. As far as I understand, he talks about disallowing apps on the App Store, so this would be a completely different point (to which I agree, setting a different browser would be nice).
    - rhodysurf 8y ago
      They don’t allow apps that have similar functionality as well. On my phone, but when AirPods came out they pulled an app that helped you find your AirPods from the store because they included their own version of the same tool in an update
      - bendiksolheim 8y ago
        I was unaware of this exact case, thanks for the information. I agree that pulling apps such as this is very unfortunate.
- repolfx 8y ago
  The policy no longer applies but for a long time, from the start of the app store, you weren't allowed to make apps that "duplicated the functionality" of the built in apps. Notably Google made their own maps app and Apple banned it: http://www.businessinsider.com/apple-screws-google-over-latitude-iphone-app-2009-7?IR=T http://www.businessinsider.com/apple-screws-google-over-lati... But it also applied to iTunes competitors: https://www.engadget.com/2008/09/12/app-disqualified-from-app-store-because-it-duplicates-itunes-fu/ https://www.engadget.com/2008/09/12/app-disqualified-from-ap...
sjy 8y ago
> I know that anti-trust laws are probably not applicable as Apple does have a dominant position based on total market share It's an interesting question though, because it depends on which 'market' you're talking about. This is a vexed question in antitrust law [1]. There is some pending litigation in the United States as to whether Apple illegally monopolized the market for iPhone apps [2], but it's been brought by app purchasers rather than the regulator, and Apple has taken the case to the Supreme Court to argue that the purchasers don't have standing to sue. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relevant_market https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relevant_market [2]: http://www.scotusblog.com/case-files/cases/apple-v-pepper/ http://www.scotusblog.com/case-files/cases/apple-v-pepper/
- DaiPlusPlus 8y ago
  It would be perverse if the court ordered Apple to modify iOS to support third-party app-stores. I see it as the same situation as video game console licensing: all games for the Xbox, PS and Nintendo must be approved by the platform owner and they take a cut from all sales. The "happy medium" we have today: where jailbreaking was found to be not illegal, works for as long as we can jailbreak. I note that iOS does now allow sideloaded apps too, though they still must run in the sandbox, but it does mean you can distribute an app that wouldn't be approved for the App Store. The EU had another workaround: impose a higher import tariff on video game consoles than general-purpose computers. Sony released a Linux kit for the PS2 so they could say the PS2 was a general-purpose computer, not a console. I think it worked initially but because hardly anyone bought the Linux kit (it wasn't sold at retail with the console) the customs people took a look and Sony had to start paying higher tariffs.
lucb1e 8y ago
> but it is very easy to switch out whatever you want for an alternative Do tell how one could switch out the map from Google Maps to anything else (Bing, OpenStreetMap, whatever). Or how I could get rid of Google+ without needing to wipe my device or use a zero-day. Or perhaps how I could get apk files from their repository without agreeing to the Google TOS and privacy policy, and without using some hacky system like Yalp store that breaks every couple of weeks for a little while. This is definitely not easy to swap out. I bet that even from the top 10% of tech-savvy people on hacker news, there's 9%. that cannot figure out how to remove google completely within a normal working day of 8 hours.
- ewoodrich 8y ago
  The OP was talking about built-in Android support for changing defaults using intents. It's a pop-up menu, and is pretty easy to understand even for non-HN users.
- makomk 8y ago
  You switch out the map app like this, same way you change the default app for anything else: https://360.here.com/2015/01/29/swap-google-maps-here-android/ https://360.here.com/2015/01/29/swap-google-maps-here-androi... (The instructions for switching to, say, Google's own Waze app are pretty much the same too.) This is as I understand it not possible on Apple's iOS; even if you install a third-party mapping application, everything else on the system which opens up a map will still use Apple's map.
  - lucb1e 8y ago
    That's a location picker. I'm talking about the map view on which applications show you things, such as live views of all trains in the country or something. And this is just one example, there are a hundred more things that are in the proprietary google suite, without which you'll be able to install only a few of the apps available for the platform.
    - ehsankia 8y ago
      Hmm, those are the specific apps using Google Maps API. That's like saying why does HackerNews use jQuery, I want it to use lodash. (I don't know if they do, just an example).
davb 8y ago
I've noticed that on iOS, Google can be quite pushy with regards to their apps. No matter how many times I click "don't ask me again", Hangouts always asks if I want to install Chrome whenever I try to open a web link (in Safari). And I get constant nags on Gmail web to install Gmail on my iPhone to "get the full experience" (as opposed to using the bundled iOS Mail app).
- jamesgeck0 8y ago
  In most of their apps, there's a "Google app settings" screen in preferences. Each section defaults to "Ask me which app to use every time."
- indemnity 8y ago
  Noticed that today. I’m never going to install Chrome on iOS, stop asking!
- lele0108 8y ago
  Hey! I've been trying to get in touch with you (I'm doing some research on Retail). Can you drop me an email? My email: jimmyliu@berkeley.edu, thanks!
SparklingCotton 8y ago
But what you can do as a user is not really relevant. I cannot change the defaults in an Android phone and sell it to you. That's the problem.
TheArcane 8y ago
> It comes with very very good default Google Apps that work well together Have you tried Google Duo?

SiempreViernes 8y ago

Could you please tell me how I can uninstall the default apps, or at least keep them from constantly updating themselves? That half a gig of unwanted apps that just keeps growing itself is pretty annoying.

theBobBob 8y ago
True, that bit is a bit annoying, but again, not being able to switch out or uninstall default apps is much worse than just not being able to uninstall default apps.
andyjohnson0 8y ago
Default apps are often built-in and can't be uninstalled. But you can disable them. See https://support.google.com/googleplay/answer/2521768 https://support.google.com/googleplay/answer/2521768 for details. If you do this then it's worth uninstalling any updates to the app first, to free-up some space.
- petecox 8y ago
  The apps are typically installed to a read-only System partition. With 'root' access, it's possible to remove them via a superuser app or adb - or it used to be the case.
tssva 8y ago
In settings go to apps, select the app you wish to stop updating and then select disable. All updates to the app will be removed and the app will no longer update.

bendiksolheim 8y ago

Do you have a source for this? I can’t remember Apple disallowing an app because Apple itself provides a similar app. I checked the default apps quickly on my phone, and can find several competitors for all of them. If you are talking about the "apps" Messages.app or Phone.app then I guess you might be right if we define "not providing a public API" the same as "disallowing on the App Store".

rhodysurf 8y ago
You can’t choose what happens is the default on an iPhone. If I want to use Gmail to open mailto links I cannot. If I want to use chrome to open web links by default, I cannot. On Android you can pick whatever apps you want as the default.
- bendiksolheim 8y ago
  I might have misunderstood what theBobBob meant with "default apps" completely, but that was not how I understood it at all. As far as I understand, he talks about disallowing apps on the App Store, so this would be a completely different point (to which I agree, setting a different browser would be nice).
  - rhodysurf 8y ago
    They don’t allow apps that have similar functionality as well. On my phone, but when AirPods came out they pulled an app that helped you find your AirPods from the store because they included their own version of the same tool in an update
    - bendiksolheim 8y ago
      I was unaware of this exact case, thanks for the information. I agree that pulling apps such as this is very unfortunate.
repolfx 8y ago
The policy no longer applies but for a long time, from the start of the app store, you weren't allowed to make apps that "duplicated the functionality" of the built in apps. Notably Google made their own maps app and Apple banned it: http://www.businessinsider.com/apple-screws-google-over-latitude-iphone-app-2009-7?IR=T http://www.businessinsider.com/apple-screws-google-over-lati... But it also applied to iTunes competitors: https://www.engadget.com/2008/09/12/app-disqualified-from-app-store-because-it-duplicates-itunes-fu/ https://www.engadget.com/2008/09/12/app-disqualified-from-ap...

sjy 8y ago

> I know that anti-trust laws are probably not applicable as Apple does have a dominant position based on total market share It's an interesting question though, because it depends on which 'market' you're talking about. This is a vexed question in antitrust law [1]. There is some pending litigation in the United States as to whether Apple illegally monopolized the market for iPhone apps [2], but it's been brought by app purchasers rather than the regulator, and Apple has taken the case to the Supreme Court to argue that the purchasers don't have standing to sue. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relevant_market https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relevant_market [2]: http://www.scotusblog.com/case-files/cases/apple-v-pepper/ http://www.scotusblog.com/case-files/cases/apple-v-pepper/

DaiPlusPlus 8y ago
It would be perverse if the court ordered Apple to modify iOS to support third-party app-stores. I see it as the same situation as video game console licensing: all games for the Xbox, PS and Nintendo must be approved by the platform owner and they take a cut from all sales. The "happy medium" we have today: where jailbreaking was found to be not illegal, works for as long as we can jailbreak. I note that iOS does now allow sideloaded apps too, though they still must run in the sandbox, but it does mean you can distribute an app that wouldn't be approved for the App Store. The EU had another workaround: impose a higher import tariff on video game consoles than general-purpose computers. Sony released a Linux kit for the PS2 so they could say the PS2 was a general-purpose computer, not a console. I think it worked initially but because hardly anyone bought the Linux kit (it wasn't sold at retail with the console) the customs people took a look and Sony had to start paying higher tariffs.

lucb1e 8y ago

> but it is very easy to switch out whatever you want for an alternative Do tell how one could switch out the map from Google Maps to anything else (Bing, OpenStreetMap, whatever). Or how I could get rid of Google+ without needing to wipe my device or use a zero-day. Or perhaps how I could get apk files from their repository without agreeing to the Google TOS and privacy policy, and without using some hacky system like Yalp store that breaks every couple of weeks for a little while. This is definitely not easy to swap out. I bet that even from the top 10% of tech-savvy people on hacker news, there's 9%. that cannot figure out how to remove google completely within a normal working day of 8 hours.

ewoodrich 8y ago
The OP was talking about built-in Android support for changing defaults using intents. It's a pop-up menu, and is pretty easy to understand even for non-HN users.
makomk 8y ago
You switch out the map app like this, same way you change the default app for anything else: https://360.here.com/2015/01/29/swap-google-maps-here-android/ https://360.here.com/2015/01/29/swap-google-maps-here-androi... (The instructions for switching to, say, Google's own Waze app are pretty much the same too.) This is as I understand it not possible on Apple's iOS; even if you install a third-party mapping application, everything else on the system which opens up a map will still use Apple's map.
- lucb1e 8y ago
  That's a location picker. I'm talking about the map view on which applications show you things, such as live views of all trains in the country or something. And this is just one example, there are a hundred more things that are in the proprietary google suite, without which you'll be able to install only a few of the apps available for the platform.
  - ehsankia 8y ago
    Hmm, those are the specific apps using Google Maps API. That's like saying why does HackerNews use jQuery, I want it to use lodash. (I don't know if they do, just an example).

davb 8y ago

I've noticed that on iOS, Google can be quite pushy with regards to their apps. No matter how many times I click "don't ask me again", Hangouts always asks if I want to install Chrome whenever I try to open a web link (in Safari). And I get constant nags on Gmail web to install Gmail on my iPhone to "get the full experience" (as opposed to using the bundled iOS Mail app).

jamesgeck0 8y ago
In most of their apps, there's a "Google app settings" screen in preferences. Each section defaults to "Ask me which app to use every time."
indemnity 8y ago
Noticed that today. I’m never going to install Chrome on iOS, stop asking!
lele0108 8y ago
Hey! I've been trying to get in touch with you (I'm doing some research on Retail). Can you drop me an email? My email: jimmyliu@berkeley.edu, thanks!

SparklingCotton 8y ago

But what you can do as a user is not really relevant. I cannot change the defaults in an Android phone and sell it to you. That's the problem.

TheArcane 8y ago

> It comes with very very good default Google Apps that work well together Have you tried Google Duo?