7 ms·

Schedule 1 is clearly rediculous. I honestly think we need these powerful tools in therapeutic settings especially for addiction which is carving swathes throug

Schedule 1 is clearly rediculous. I honestly think we need these powerful tools in therapeutic settings especially for addiction which is carving swathes through entire generations. I know multiple people who’ve gotten the ability and drive to grow past alcoholism using them, one can only hope it could be a tool for opiate addiction. Benefits for PTSD and traumatic experiences are practically proven at this point with MDMA.

1000units 8y ago
As a counterpoint, I know multiple people who became insane after trying LSD.
- Uberphallus 8y ago
  More often than not, those people have previous mental health problems and LSD throws them over the edge. Sometimes the trigger is a getting your head hit, sometimes receiving a prize, sometimes getting dumped, sometimes after giving birth. At the end of the day you don't see any correlation between psychedelic usage and mental health issues, same as with the examples I gave. LSD is an emotional earthquake, and should be treated as such.
  - 1000units 8y ago
    Of course there's a correlation. You've just described one of the causes yourself. Giving people very focused nudges in precisely the wrong direction is absolutely a terrible and serious effect. Many people live their life on the edge without ever falling off. Think about the prevalence of depression versus incidence of suicide as an example.
    - Uberphallus 8y ago
      There's no correlation, it can be a trigger, like giving birth can be a trigger. Let's make breeding illegal?
      - 1000units 8y ago
        There is a correlation between people who develop serious mental illness and people who take LSD. The effect you are describing guarantees this (under very weak and sensible assumptions).
        codyb 8y ago
        https://www.erowid.org/chemicals/lsd/lsd_health.shtml https://www.erowid.org/chemicals/lsd/lsd_health.shtml It apparently can bring out already dormant mental illnesses but is not in any way associated with the formation of new mental illnesses. We all know LSD was literally available _at the pharmacy_ in the USA up until the mid 60s right? The entire nation didn't go insane... And you can bet your ass a pharmacy will at least ID people trying to buy it, you'll know exactly how much you're getting, and there could probably even be an information packet to go with it. Currently if you want it you have to risk persecution, have no idea what strength of dose you'll be receiving, and there's definitely no information packet unless you look it up yourself. At the end of the day criminalization is causing more harm than it's solving. People have issues with all sorts of things, alcohol is a lot more negative but totally legal. In general the proper tact is to ensure access to healthcare and opportunities in our society. Then those with dormant or non dormant mental illnesses are more likely to receive the attention they deserve. Access to opportunities means people get involved in their communities and projects and become passionate about something and are less likely to abuse drugs overall. Or you can spread hogwash like "LSD makes ya insane" which is not directly what you said but how people will read it.
        gepi79 8y ago
        > It apparently can bring out already dormant mental illnesses but is not in any way associated with the formation of new mental illnesses. The victim does not know in advance. The victim does not care afterwards because the result is the same.
        1000units 8y ago
        And how is he so confident it doesn't "form new illnesses," whatever that might mean? Like I've mentioned upthread, I've known a number of people who have clearly suffered from having tried LSD. Some of them will admit it was the worst decision they've ever made. Others will deny it, strongly encourage you to try it, and if you press them for how it might help you exactly they cannot explain, but there is a glimmer of anxiety and recognition that it changed them deeply in ways they are not comfortable with. And they want you to join them. It's very chilling. It reminds me of how you'll see in some gay communities when someone contracts HIV they will compulsively spread it to as many people as possible.
    - deno 8y ago
      > Think about the prevalence of depression versus incidence of suicide as an example. The article actually talks about depression. How many suicides are or can be averted with psychedelics? You can’t judge things like that in a vacuum.
      - gepi79 8y ago
        Promoting psychedelics as strong medicine to be used only by medical experts is very different from legalizing psychedelics because some people claim less potential for harm than alcohol or tobacco.
        deno 8y ago
        By any objective assessment they are not even in the same league[1]. Should you be prescribed alcohol by a doctor, as well? After all, a significant number of people can’t be trusted to use it responsibly. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_harmfulness https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_harmfulness
        1000units 8y ago
        Alcohol can safely be enjoyed in moderation, as countless humans have successfully managed for thousands of years. A single LSD trip can ruin you, as many people have proven in these past tens of years.
        deno 8y ago
        A single drunken escapade can ruin your life. What’s your point?
        gepi79 8y ago
        The point is that alcohol is predictable and does not affect your well being after the intoxication. Proven countless times. Using psychedelics is like playing russian roulette. Proven countless times. The effects of a reasonable dose of psychedelics ranges from weird experience to psychosis (you do not recognize false beliefs) to the worst action you have made. http://slatestarcodex.com/2016/04/28/why-were-early-psychedelicists-so-weird/ http://slatestarcodex.com/2016/04/28/why-were-early-psychede... There is a reason why alcohol and tobacco are accepted in almost all societies while opioids and psychedelics are treated differently. IMO too many people suffer already from psychosis. E.g. flat earthers, denial of climate change denial, denial of urgent action against climate change, low carb diet is healthy,... Judging what is real and what not is already difficult for many without psychedelics. Read about Donald Trump or Scott Pruitt, the ex-EPA administrator.
- hug 8y ago
  I believe this comment as far as I can metaphorically throw it, which is to say not at all, because you can't throw comments. This is the "my uncle works at Nintendo" of psychedelics.
  - 1000units 8y ago
    I'll give you they weren't the brightest bulbs to begin with.
  - scarecrowbob 8y ago
    "This is the "my uncle works at Nintendo" of psychedelics." This thread is a long and predictably basic discussion on a topic that I think has been beaten to death. Your comment, however, made reading the thread worthwhile.
- Cthulhu_ 8y ago
  If you (or anyone) wants a very good (long, multipart, short book) report on an experience like that, check out https://www.stilldrinking.org/the-episode-part-1 https://www.stilldrinking.org/the-episode-part-1. TL;DR, don't do LSD if you've not slept properly for a week.
  - 1000units 8y ago
    Here is another compelling public account: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_Leary https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_Leary
- anoneemouse 8y ago
  I think the consensus is psychedelics can trigger or exacerbate mental illness you're already predisposed to. If your family has a history of mental illness you should probably avoid psychedelics. Even if they don't it might be wise to wait until your late 20s to see if any signs of mental illness appear. But that's not really any different than people predisposed to heart disease smoking or drinking alcohol or eating McDonalds.
  - ada1981 8y ago
    “New Studies Fail To Find Associations Between Psychedelic Drugs And Mental Health Problems“ http://www.iflscience.com/brain/new-studies-fail-find-associations-between-psychedelic-drugs-and-mental-health-problems/ http://www.iflscience.com/brain/new-studies-fail-find-associ...
    - dzelzs 8y ago
      The psychodelics will not cause the illness in any way or form - rather the "experience" might trigger an existing one (that potentially can be caused by anything). Although thats still fits with the point about having a disposition to something and acting accordingly. AKA using common sense :D
  - 1000units 8y ago
    In the worst case McDonald's takes far longer to effectively render you a nonperson, for one. Tastes better too.
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
- ada1981 8y ago
  I thought I went insane from Psychedelics for about a decade. Then I did them again in a therapeutic setting and realized I hadn’t a lot of unprocessed trauma that was causing the psychosis, depression, mania, etc. A few theraptic sessions later, no longer diagnosable as schizophrenic, Biploar and no more suicidal ideation, anxiety, panic attacks, etc. I’m one story, but my research indicates this is a viable path and I’m working on going back to school to be able to conduct research.
  - 1000units 8y ago
    I'm not sure I understand. You had a psychologist retract schizophrenia and BPD diagnoses? Or do you just mean after taking LSD again you no longer feel like you suffer from those conditions?
    - ada1981 8y ago
      The latter. About 20 years ago I was diagnosed schizophrenic after driving my car into the back of a semi in an attempt to teleport to visit my girlfriend. (Sober) More recently (5 years ago) I was diagnosed with BPD after being suicidal on the Golden Gate Bridge. I spent my twenties in a very visionary / mystic / mythic (schizophrenic) state of Conciousness and just didn’t discuss it for fear of being medicated. A few years ago a found relief trough a combination of MDMA, Mushrooms, NARM Therapy, Breathwork and Relationship as a Path. I no longer suffer the symptoms, Am no longer diagnosable, and my subjective experience was one of going into deep repressed traumas (birth, circumsicion, parents divorce, abusive step dad, etc) and feeling and releasing them. I’ve had a psychiatrists, Ivy League hospitals, and film makers approach me for insights into how my approach might help others. I’m aware I am an N of one, but I tempered my intuition and insights with research (when I was suicidal I was also helping Peter Theil with a private medical research startup and had access to some great minds). Here is a podcast I did recently with more detail if it is interesting to you: https://thethirdwave.co/podcast/episode-48-anthony-adams/ https://thethirdwave.co/podcast/episode-48-anthony-adams/ (I’m also aware that the standard advice is to avoid psychedelics if you have these conditions — for myself, I took the risk as my understanding of mental illness shifted and I was interested in going more deeply into the uncomfortable states in order to heal. For me it paid off, and hopefully it will for others as I work with researchers to expand our understanding of if my results can be replicated — so far it seems they can, with the right Support.)

1000units 8y ago

As a counterpoint, I know multiple people who became insane after trying LSD.

Uberphallus 8y ago
More often than not, those people have previous mental health problems and LSD throws them over the edge. Sometimes the trigger is a getting your head hit, sometimes receiving a prize, sometimes getting dumped, sometimes after giving birth. At the end of the day you don't see any correlation between psychedelic usage and mental health issues, same as with the examples I gave. LSD is an emotional earthquake, and should be treated as such.
- 1000units 8y ago
  Of course there's a correlation. You've just described one of the causes yourself. Giving people very focused nudges in precisely the wrong direction is absolutely a terrible and serious effect. Many people live their life on the edge without ever falling off. Think about the prevalence of depression versus incidence of suicide as an example.
  - Uberphallus 8y ago
    There's no correlation, it can be a trigger, like giving birth can be a trigger. Let's make breeding illegal?
    - 1000units 8y ago
      There is a correlation between people who develop serious mental illness and people who take LSD. The effect you are describing guarantees this (under very weak and sensible assumptions).
      - codyb 8y ago
        https://www.erowid.org/chemicals/lsd/lsd_health.shtml https://www.erowid.org/chemicals/lsd/lsd_health.shtml It apparently can bring out already dormant mental illnesses but is not in any way associated with the formation of new mental illnesses. We all know LSD was literally available _at the pharmacy_ in the USA up until the mid 60s right? The entire nation didn't go insane... And you can bet your ass a pharmacy will at least ID people trying to buy it, you'll know exactly how much you're getting, and there could probably even be an information packet to go with it. Currently if you want it you have to risk persecution, have no idea what strength of dose you'll be receiving, and there's definitely no information packet unless you look it up yourself. At the end of the day criminalization is causing more harm than it's solving. People have issues with all sorts of things, alcohol is a lot more negative but totally legal. In general the proper tact is to ensure access to healthcare and opportunities in our society. Then those with dormant or non dormant mental illnesses are more likely to receive the attention they deserve. Access to opportunities means people get involved in their communities and projects and become passionate about something and are less likely to abuse drugs overall. Or you can spread hogwash like "LSD makes ya insane" which is not directly what you said but how people will read it.
        gepi79 8y ago
        > It apparently can bring out already dormant mental illnesses but is not in any way associated with the formation of new mental illnesses. The victim does not know in advance. The victim does not care afterwards because the result is the same.
        1000units 8y ago
        And how is he so confident it doesn't "form new illnesses," whatever that might mean? Like I've mentioned upthread, I've known a number of people who have clearly suffered from having tried LSD. Some of them will admit it was the worst decision they've ever made. Others will deny it, strongly encourage you to try it, and if you press them for how it might help you exactly they cannot explain, but there is a glimmer of anxiety and recognition that it changed them deeply in ways they are not comfortable with. And they want you to join them. It's very chilling. It reminds me of how you'll see in some gay communities when someone contracts HIV they will compulsively spread it to as many people as possible.
  - deno 8y ago
    > Think about the prevalence of depression versus incidence of suicide as an example. The article actually talks about depression. How many suicides are or can be averted with psychedelics? You can’t judge things like that in a vacuum.
    - gepi79 8y ago
      Promoting psychedelics as strong medicine to be used only by medical experts is very different from legalizing psychedelics because some people claim less potential for harm than alcohol or tobacco.
      - deno 8y ago
        By any objective assessment they are not even in the same league[1]. Should you be prescribed alcohol by a doctor, as well? After all, a significant number of people can’t be trusted to use it responsibly. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_harmfulness https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_harmfulness
        1000units 8y ago
        Alcohol can safely be enjoyed in moderation, as countless humans have successfully managed for thousands of years. A single LSD trip can ruin you, as many people have proven in these past tens of years.
        deno 8y ago
        A single drunken escapade can ruin your life. What’s your point?
        gepi79 8y ago
        The point is that alcohol is predictable and does not affect your well being after the intoxication. Proven countless times. Using psychedelics is like playing russian roulette. Proven countless times. The effects of a reasonable dose of psychedelics ranges from weird experience to psychosis (you do not recognize false beliefs) to the worst action you have made. http://slatestarcodex.com/2016/04/28/why-were-early-psychedelicists-so-weird/ http://slatestarcodex.com/2016/04/28/why-were-early-psychede... There is a reason why alcohol and tobacco are accepted in almost all societies while opioids and psychedelics are treated differently. IMO too many people suffer already from psychosis. E.g. flat earthers, denial of climate change denial, denial of urgent action against climate change, low carb diet is healthy,... Judging what is real and what not is already difficult for many without psychedelics. Read about Donald Trump or Scott Pruitt, the ex-EPA administrator.
hug 8y ago
I believe this comment as far as I can metaphorically throw it, which is to say not at all, because you can't throw comments. This is the "my uncle works at Nintendo" of psychedelics.
- 1000units 8y ago
  I'll give you they weren't the brightest bulbs to begin with.
- scarecrowbob 8y ago
  "This is the "my uncle works at Nintendo" of psychedelics." This thread is a long and predictably basic discussion on a topic that I think has been beaten to death. Your comment, however, made reading the thread worthwhile.
Cthulhu_ 8y ago
If you (or anyone) wants a very good (long, multipart, short book) report on an experience like that, check out https://www.stilldrinking.org/the-episode-part-1 https://www.stilldrinking.org/the-episode-part-1. TL;DR, don't do LSD if you've not slept properly for a week.
- 1000units 8y ago
  Here is another compelling public account: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_Leary https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_Leary
anoneemouse 8y ago
I think the consensus is psychedelics can trigger or exacerbate mental illness you're already predisposed to. If your family has a history of mental illness you should probably avoid psychedelics. Even if they don't it might be wise to wait until your late 20s to see if any signs of mental illness appear. But that's not really any different than people predisposed to heart disease smoking or drinking alcohol or eating McDonalds.
- ada1981 8y ago
  “New Studies Fail To Find Associations Between Psychedelic Drugs And Mental Health Problems“ http://www.iflscience.com/brain/new-studies-fail-find-associations-between-psychedelic-drugs-and-mental-health-problems/ http://www.iflscience.com/brain/new-studies-fail-find-associ...
  - dzelzs 8y ago
    The psychodelics will not cause the illness in any way or form - rather the "experience" might trigger an existing one (that potentially can be caused by anything). Although thats still fits with the point about having a disposition to something and acting accordingly. AKA using common sense :D
- 1000units 8y ago
  In the worst case McDonald's takes far longer to effectively render you a nonperson, for one. Tastes better too.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
ada1981 8y ago
I thought I went insane from Psychedelics for about a decade. Then I did them again in a therapeutic setting and realized I hadn’t a lot of unprocessed trauma that was causing the psychosis, depression, mania, etc. A few theraptic sessions later, no longer diagnosable as schizophrenic, Biploar and no more suicidal ideation, anxiety, panic attacks, etc. I’m one story, but my research indicates this is a viable path and I’m working on going back to school to be able to conduct research.
- 1000units 8y ago
  I'm not sure I understand. You had a psychologist retract schizophrenia and BPD diagnoses? Or do you just mean after taking LSD again you no longer feel like you suffer from those conditions?
  - ada1981 8y ago
    The latter. About 20 years ago I was diagnosed schizophrenic after driving my car into the back of a semi in an attempt to teleport to visit my girlfriend. (Sober) More recently (5 years ago) I was diagnosed with BPD after being suicidal on the Golden Gate Bridge. I spent my twenties in a very visionary / mystic / mythic (schizophrenic) state of Conciousness and just didn’t discuss it for fear of being medicated. A few years ago a found relief trough a combination of MDMA, Mushrooms, NARM Therapy, Breathwork and Relationship as a Path. I no longer suffer the symptoms, Am no longer diagnosable, and my subjective experience was one of going into deep repressed traumas (birth, circumsicion, parents divorce, abusive step dad, etc) and feeling and releasing them. I’ve had a psychiatrists, Ivy League hospitals, and film makers approach me for insights into how my approach might help others. I’m aware I am an N of one, but I tempered my intuition and insights with research (when I was suicidal I was also helping Peter Theil with a private medical research startup and had access to some great minds). Here is a podcast I did recently with more detail if it is interesting to you: https://thethirdwave.co/podcast/episode-48-anthony-adams/ https://thethirdwave.co/podcast/episode-48-anthony-adams/ (I’m also aware that the standard advice is to avoid psychedelics if you have these conditions — for myself, I took the risk as my understanding of mental illness shifted and I was interested in going more deeply into the uncomfortable states in order to heal. For me it paid off, and hopefully it will for others as I work with researchers to expand our understanding of if my results can be replicated — so far it seems they can, with the right Support.)