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I am hearing what you are saying its just not true. Its me knowing what the original is thats valuable, the second you replicate it you diminshes the value to m

I am hearing what you are saying its just not true. Its me knowing what the original is thats valuable, the second you replicate it you diminshes the value to me. I.e. the one shipped from earth is more valuable than the one replicated no matter the level of fidelity because I know the difference.

lisper 8y ago
How could you be sure the one shipped from earth was not replicated on earth?
- ThomPete 8y ago
  You can't but that doesn't change much because it's still from earth which makes it more valuable than if it's been made in front of me. Of course you can get scammed you can do that today too. But that has nothing to do with how value is created. Again it's not the object that is valuable it's you deciding it's valuable. Living in a world like that we would find other ways to ensure that we track the authenticity to the extent we can. So value will always be ensured because it's created in the brain not in the object.
  - lisper 8y ago
    > > How could you be sure the one shipped from earth was not replicated on earth? > You can't but that doesn't change much because it's still from earth How do you know that? You just conceded that there's no way to know if the thing was replicated before being loaded onto the cargo ship. How do you know that it wasn't replicated on the cargo ship shortly before arrival? > Living in a world like that we would find other ways to ensure that we track the authenticity No, you wouldn't. That's the whole point. In a world with replication technology, the whole concept of "authenticity" becomes every bit as meaningless for physical objects as it already is for digital ones. > So value will always be ensured because it's created in the brain not in the object. This is essentially saying that you will always be able to find suckers. Which may be true, but I would hope that any member of a space-faring species would have a basic understanding of physics, cognitive bias, and logical fallacies.
    - ThomPete 8y ago
      You are still too focused on the object. A Ming vase has no inherent value, we apply value to it. I am saying that there will be fraud but also plenty of normal decent people who do not cheat, just like today. I could hire someone to make sure there was no replicator on the ship just as an example. There could be procedures in place on earth to make sure its still the original. You are completely disregarding the human part which is why you end up with the conclusion you do.
      - lisper 8y ago
        No, I get that humans can attach value to things for irrational reasons. But you don't seem to grasp the impact that replication technology would have. Look at the diamond market, which is collapsing because of the advent of artificial diamonds. DeBeers tried to rescue it by promulgating the myth that natural diamonds are somehow superior to artificial ones, but this failed because they are indistinguishable. The exact same thing will happen to art when replicas can be made that are indistinguishable from the originals. The only reason humans care about old things is that at the moment they are still hard to replicate, and that makes them scarce. As soon as it's easy to make something that is equivalent to an old thing in every measurable way they will no longer be scarce and their value will plummet just like everything else that can be mass-produced.
        ThomPete 8y ago
        I do grasp the impact. You are assuming that there would be built no legitimate business which would not make it their thing to send original objects to earth. The diamond market was created to begin with, just because the market is going down doesn't mean that the value of a diamond is which any visit to a diamond store would tell you and certain historic diamonds certainly haven't gone down in price. You can't recreate the history of an original ming dynasty vase just because you can replicate it down to it's atomic structure that's the point. You can't see this because you keep thinking about the object as having value. It never had value it's us who attach value to things and we will continue to do that even if we can replicate, in fact that would just increase the price even more for originals.

lisper 8y ago

How could you be sure the one shipped from earth was not replicated on earth?

ThomPete 8y ago
You can't but that doesn't change much because it's still from earth which makes it more valuable than if it's been made in front of me. Of course you can get scammed you can do that today too. But that has nothing to do with how value is created. Again it's not the object that is valuable it's you deciding it's valuable. Living in a world like that we would find other ways to ensure that we track the authenticity to the extent we can. So value will always be ensured because it's created in the brain not in the object.
- lisper 8y ago
  > > How could you be sure the one shipped from earth was not replicated on earth? > You can't but that doesn't change much because it's still from earth How do you know that? You just conceded that there's no way to know if the thing was replicated before being loaded onto the cargo ship. How do you know that it wasn't replicated on the cargo ship shortly before arrival? > Living in a world like that we would find other ways to ensure that we track the authenticity No, you wouldn't. That's the whole point. In a world with replication technology, the whole concept of "authenticity" becomes every bit as meaningless for physical objects as it already is for digital ones. > So value will always be ensured because it's created in the brain not in the object. This is essentially saying that you will always be able to find suckers. Which may be true, but I would hope that any member of a space-faring species would have a basic understanding of physics, cognitive bias, and logical fallacies.
  - ThomPete 8y ago
    You are still too focused on the object. A Ming vase has no inherent value, we apply value to it. I am saying that there will be fraud but also plenty of normal decent people who do not cheat, just like today. I could hire someone to make sure there was no replicator on the ship just as an example. There could be procedures in place on earth to make sure its still the original. You are completely disregarding the human part which is why you end up with the conclusion you do.
    - lisper 8y ago
      No, I get that humans can attach value to things for irrational reasons. But you don't seem to grasp the impact that replication technology would have. Look at the diamond market, which is collapsing because of the advent of artificial diamonds. DeBeers tried to rescue it by promulgating the myth that natural diamonds are somehow superior to artificial ones, but this failed because they are indistinguishable. The exact same thing will happen to art when replicas can be made that are indistinguishable from the originals. The only reason humans care about old things is that at the moment they are still hard to replicate, and that makes them scarce. As soon as it's easy to make something that is equivalent to an old thing in every measurable way they will no longer be scarce and their value will plummet just like everything else that can be mass-produced.
      - ThomPete 8y ago
        I do grasp the impact. You are assuming that there would be built no legitimate business which would not make it their thing to send original objects to earth. The diamond market was created to begin with, just because the market is going down doesn't mean that the value of a diamond is which any visit to a diamond store would tell you and certain historic diamonds certainly haven't gone down in price. You can't recreate the history of an original ming dynasty vase just because you can replicate it down to it's atomic structure that's the point. You can't see this because you keep thinking about the object as having value. It never had value it's us who attach value to things and we will continue to do that even if we can replicate, in fact that would just increase the price even more for originals.