4 ms·

For reference, until Nov 2017, Zoox drove a cumulative 2200 autonomous miles driven in public CA roads, with a ridiculously high disengagement rate of 1/430 mil

For reference, until Nov 2017, Zoox drove a cumulative 2200 autonomous miles driven in public CA roads, with a ridiculously high disengagement rate of 1/430 miles. https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/wcm/connect/495c1aa7-2a3b-4dd8-8922-f33470605cfb/ZooxInc.pdf?MOD=AJPERES https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/wcm/connect/495c1aa7-2a3b-4dd8... For comparison, in the 12 months ending in Nov 2017, Waymo drove 352000 autonomous miles in CA public roads, with a disengagement rate of 1/5600 miles. This article is a joke...

curuinor 8y ago
mercedes has about 1 disengagement per mile. zoox is a respectable third, actually, behind cruise/gm. https://thelastdriverlicenseholder.com/2018/02/01/disengagement-report-2017-the-good-the-bad-the-ugly/ https://thelastdriverlicenseholder.com/2018/02/01/disengagem...
- dawhizkid 8y ago
  Are these reports all self reported? Does CA audit?
  - alex_young 8y ago
    What about environment? Is waymo doing this kind of mixed urban / highway driving? They seemed pretty confident when they had a reporter ferried back and forth.
  - Fricken 8y ago
    Disengagement rates are self-reported, and the guidelines are loose. There isn't a whole lot to infer from them.
dmix 8y ago
They incorporated in 2014... probably didn't start serious development until they were properly capitalized in mid 2015 (with $40 million in July 2015 and $250 million in Oct 2016 [1]). Waymo started 9yrs ago. It's not bad being in 3rd place against Google and Cruise/GM in a few years. This type of thing can improve rapidly as they start doing real-world testing... which you cite yourself has merely begun (on real roads mind you, not testing in closed environments). 2200 miles is hardly anything to measure against. Which sounds like months of testing vs Waymo's years. Not to mention they are developing full new vehicles as well, not just the driving AI software. Which might be highly valuable to a major car company who could acquire them at a significant multiple. This type of pessimism based on a single metric is toxic and naive regarding how tech companies are built. ...Not to mention there was no claim in this article that they were at Waymo's level or anything but at a very early stage of development. [1] https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/zoox#section-locked-marketplace https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/zoox#section-locked-...
- argonaut 8y ago
  Only having a month of testing (or otherwise only having barely tested things) is a glaring negative, not a positive like you're framing it as. The self-reported California metrics themselves cannot be relied upon since the companies (Cruise and Waymo included), could be making it up (and indeed have an incentive to inflate their numbers).
  - sempuki 8y ago
    In order to accrue miles you need cars and drivers, which is capital intensive. One car can only drive so far. To get Waymo and Cruise numbers you need Waymo and Cruise money, which Zoox is starting to have. You can expect to see those numbers improve. At the end of the day though, not all miles are equal. If one were so inclined you could just drive up an down a big highway with autonomy engaged only once merged. Obviously 100 miles of SF traffic is not the same as 100 miles of staying in your lane on cruise control.
Fricken 8y ago
You don't know what you're talking about. Firstly, disengagement rates don't mean much, but if they did, One every 430 miles in downtown San Fransisco is spectacular. Zoox is behind Waymo and Cruise, and no one else, in an industry that has seen over 200 billion in investment globally over the past two years. There is a long list of companies that have spent a lot more developing autonomy and have a lot less to show for it than Zoox.

curuinor 8y ago

mercedes has about 1 disengagement per mile. zoox is a respectable third, actually, behind cruise/gm. https://thelastdriverlicenseholder.com/2018/02/01/disengagement-report-2017-the-good-the-bad-the-ugly/ https://thelastdriverlicenseholder.com/2018/02/01/disengagem...

dawhizkid 8y ago
Are these reports all self reported? Does CA audit?
- alex_young 8y ago
  What about environment? Is waymo doing this kind of mixed urban / highway driving? They seemed pretty confident when they had a reporter ferried back and forth.
- Fricken 8y ago
  Disengagement rates are self-reported, and the guidelines are loose. There isn't a whole lot to infer from them.

dmix 8y ago

They incorporated in 2014... probably didn't start serious development until they were properly capitalized in mid 2015 (with $40 million in July 2015 and $250 million in Oct 2016 [1]). Waymo started 9yrs ago. It's not bad being in 3rd place against Google and Cruise/GM in a few years. This type of thing can improve rapidly as they start doing real-world testing... which you cite yourself has merely begun (on real roads mind you, not testing in closed environments). 2200 miles is hardly anything to measure against. Which sounds like months of testing vs Waymo's years. Not to mention they are developing full new vehicles as well, not just the driving AI software. Which might be highly valuable to a major car company who could acquire them at a significant multiple. This type of pessimism based on a single metric is toxic and naive regarding how tech companies are built. ...Not to mention there was no claim in this article that they were at Waymo's level or anything but at a very early stage of development. [1] https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/zoox#section-locked-marketplace https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/zoox#section-locked-...

argonaut 8y ago
Only having a month of testing (or otherwise only having barely tested things) is a glaring negative, not a positive like you're framing it as. The self-reported California metrics themselves cannot be relied upon since the companies (Cruise and Waymo included), could be making it up (and indeed have an incentive to inflate their numbers).
- sempuki 8y ago
  In order to accrue miles you need cars and drivers, which is capital intensive. One car can only drive so far. To get Waymo and Cruise numbers you need Waymo and Cruise money, which Zoox is starting to have. You can expect to see those numbers improve. At the end of the day though, not all miles are equal. If one were so inclined you could just drive up an down a big highway with autonomy engaged only once merged. Obviously 100 miles of SF traffic is not the same as 100 miles of staying in your lane on cruise control.

Fricken 8y ago

You don't know what you're talking about. Firstly, disengagement rates don't mean much, but if they did, One every 430 miles in downtown San Fransisco is spectacular. Zoox is behind Waymo and Cruise, and no one else, in an industry that has seen over 200 billion in investment globally over the past two years. There is a long list of companies that have spent a lot more developing autonomy and have a lot less to show for it than Zoox.