5 ms·

Except you can't tell me what the spin is without polarizers. This is like telling me I have to measure the orientation of a fidget spinner with a fitness club'

Except you can't tell me what the spin is without polarizers. This is like telling me I have to measure the orientation of a fidget spinner with a fitness club's treadmill set to the brisk pace of an uphill jog. None of the experiments don't use polarizing lenses to make a determination of results on both sides. This is where the experiments are fundamentally flawed and propose weak evidence. To simply read about the fundamentals of light polarization is to understand that quantum wave function collapse is much ado about nothing, and it becomes obvious that all this contention is total bullshit, and none of it is magic. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polarizer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polarizer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polarizing_filter_(photography) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polarizing_filter_(photography... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photon_polarization https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photon_polarization

danbruc 8y ago
If you read through the list of Bell test experiments [1], you will discover that not all of them are done with photons, for example »Violation of Bell’s inequality in Josephson phase qubits« [2]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_test_experiments#Notable_experiments https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_test_experiments#Notable_... [2] https://web.physics.ucsb.edu/~martinisgroup/papers/Ansmann2009.pdf https://web.physics.ucsb.edu/~martinisgroup/papers/Ansmann20...
- breadAndWater 8y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inconsistent_comparison https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inconsistent_comparison Josephson phase qubits aren't even utilizing the same fundamental concepts to examine the qualities of the mediums that quantum uncertainty affects. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase_qubit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase_qubit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephson_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephson_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephson_voltage_standard https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephson_voltage_standard
  - danbruc 8y ago
    You complained - without providing any substantive arguments why this might be an issue - that all Bell test experiments use polarizers, I pointed out that you are wrong. I have no idea what you are complaining about now, what is »[...] qualities of the mediums that quantum uncertainty affects [...]« even supposed to mean? You are obviously far outside of your area of competence. If not, just do the experiment, write the paper, and collect your Nobel Prize, no need to argue with clueless people on the web.
    - breadAndWater 8y ago
      A Josephson junction doesn't even trap any single actual physical particle. It's just a standing wave of electrical current trapped in a bounded array of geometrically crafted slabs of superconductors and insulators. It's a phenomenon that arises from the construction of the device. Unlike fundamental particles such as photons and electrons, there is nothing substantial about the state represented by the standing wave qubit trapped in a circuit operated by a Josephson junction device. Destroy the device (or nevermind that, just never place it in a dewar flask chilled to 4 degrees kelvin, to activate it) and the phenomenon doesn't even exist. So much for whether or not matter or energy can never be created nor destroyed. To sit there and state that, on paper, this is the same thing as an individual electron emitted as beta decay is, well... fundamentally flawed.
  - donutte 8y ago
    Just to be clear, these are experimental results that are statistically impossible assuming a classical physics. Are you actually worried that they are somehow studying the wrong self-evidently non-classical thing, or what?
    - breadAndWater 8y ago
      Quote from the "Phase_qubit" Wikipedia article: "The zero voltage state describes one of the two distinct dynamic behaviors displayed by the phase particle, and corresponds to when the particle is trapped in one of the local minima in the washboard potential. [...] With the phase particle trapped in a minimum, it has zero average velocity and therefore zero average voltage. [...] The voltage state is the other dynamic behavior displayed by a Josephson junction, and corresponds to the phase particle free-running down the slope of the potential, with a non-zero average velocity and therefore non-zero voltage." So, we're not even talking about actual fundamental subatomic particles anymore. We're talking about phase oscillations, and renaming that as if it were a "particle" because, hey, particle/wave duality, so why not? Hand-wavey math permits us to equivocate that a current induced on a wire, by way of the transfer of many actual electrons across substrates, can serve to prove the premise of a "teleportation device" also. See? If we play our game of three-card monte, change phase oscillations, wiggle our noses, and tilt our heads a little, it's all very obvious that faster-than-light information transfer can be generalized to fit in the same picture, because this tuning fork makes that tuning fork ring in harmony, but only when we choose to notice.

danbruc 8y ago

If you read through the list of Bell test experiments [1], you will discover that not all of them are done with photons, for example »Violation of Bell’s inequality in Josephson phase qubits« [2]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_test_experiments#Notable_experiments https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_test_experiments#Notable_... [2] https://web.physics.ucsb.edu/~martinisgroup/papers/Ansmann2009.pdf https://web.physics.ucsb.edu/~martinisgroup/papers/Ansmann20...

breadAndWater 8y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inconsistent_comparison https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inconsistent_comparison Josephson phase qubits aren't even utilizing the same fundamental concepts to examine the qualities of the mediums that quantum uncertainty affects. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase_qubit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase_qubit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephson_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephson_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephson_voltage_standard https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephson_voltage_standard
- danbruc 8y ago
  You complained - without providing any substantive arguments why this might be an issue - that all Bell test experiments use polarizers, I pointed out that you are wrong. I have no idea what you are complaining about now, what is »[...] qualities of the mediums that quantum uncertainty affects [...]« even supposed to mean? You are obviously far outside of your area of competence. If not, just do the experiment, write the paper, and collect your Nobel Prize, no need to argue with clueless people on the web.
  - breadAndWater 8y ago
    A Josephson junction doesn't even trap any single actual physical particle. It's just a standing wave of electrical current trapped in a bounded array of geometrically crafted slabs of superconductors and insulators. It's a phenomenon that arises from the construction of the device. Unlike fundamental particles such as photons and electrons, there is nothing substantial about the state represented by the standing wave qubit trapped in a circuit operated by a Josephson junction device. Destroy the device (or nevermind that, just never place it in a dewar flask chilled to 4 degrees kelvin, to activate it) and the phenomenon doesn't even exist. So much for whether or not matter or energy can never be created nor destroyed. To sit there and state that, on paper, this is the same thing as an individual electron emitted as beta decay is, well... fundamentally flawed.
- donutte 8y ago
  Just to be clear, these are experimental results that are statistically impossible assuming a classical physics. Are you actually worried that they are somehow studying the wrong self-evidently non-classical thing, or what?
  - breadAndWater 8y ago
    Quote from the "Phase_qubit" Wikipedia article: "The zero voltage state describes one of the two distinct dynamic behaviors displayed by the phase particle, and corresponds to when the particle is trapped in one of the local minima in the washboard potential. [...] With the phase particle trapped in a minimum, it has zero average velocity and therefore zero average voltage. [...] The voltage state is the other dynamic behavior displayed by a Josephson junction, and corresponds to the phase particle free-running down the slope of the potential, with a non-zero average velocity and therefore non-zero voltage." So, we're not even talking about actual fundamental subatomic particles anymore. We're talking about phase oscillations, and renaming that as if it were a "particle" because, hey, particle/wave duality, so why not? Hand-wavey math permits us to equivocate that a current induced on a wire, by way of the transfer of many actual electrons across substrates, can serve to prove the premise of a "teleportation device" also. See? If we play our game of three-card monte, change phase oscillations, wiggle our noses, and tilt our heads a little, it's all very obvious that faster-than-light information transfer can be generalized to fit in the same picture, because this tuning fork makes that tuning fork ring in harmony, but only when we choose to notice.