5 ms·
The best way to prevent cheating is by streaming games. Game streaming services are the future of multiplayer games. Edit: I mean cloud gaming like OnLive, not
by username3 8y ago
The best way to prevent cheating is by streaming games. Game streaming services are the future of multiplayer games. Edit: I mean cloud gaming like OnLive, not Twitch.
- percentcer 8y agoNot worth the latency cost IMO. They're fine for single player.
- username3 8y agoLatency to the server will always be higher, but player to player will be lower if server to server on the backend is better. Which has less latency? P2P from California to Europe or latency between streaming servers in California to Europe.
- SteveNuts 8y agoAren't there massive video latency issues with this? People spend tons of money to get the absolute best frame rates and monitor response times, I can't imagine hardcore gamers wanting to have tens of ms additional latency in their gaming.
- username3 8y agoIt levels the playing field and allows players to play with others around the world if streaming servers have better latency to each other than p2p.
- TheSmiddy 8y agoThe latency from the player to the server still exists though so I dont see how this is going to solve any problems.
- username3 8y ago50ms player to streaming server + 10ms streaming server to streaming server + 50ms player to server = 110ms is less than 150ms player to player.
- TheSmiddy 8y agoand how do you propose a server in Australia is going to achieve 10ms to a server in the US? Why is the server to server latency going to be less than the ISP's natural routes?
- username3 8y agoStreaming services have more money than consumers. Replace 10ms with whatever is possible. At some point, the latency will be lower overall.
- bschwindHN 8y agoFor real-time "twitch" shooters, gamers will never accept it as a solution. You can't beat the speed of light traveling across earth.
- stcredzero 8y agoYou can have real-time games whose mechanics are designed around latency. My game is one example. In fact, I would assert that for now, you have to design around latency in real-time multiplayer games. Until round-trip latency for your entire userbase is below 40ms, it will be an issue.
- earenndil 8y agoI'd say 30ms, not not 40. Because a single frame is 16.6ms, so 30ms round-trip would bring one-way down to below one frame of latency (potentially with a small amount of jitter).
- stcredzero 8y agoIt sounds surprisingly high, but a lot of the population won't notice 40ms round trip. Some of it will know. It also depends on the game's mechanics. Not all games are FPS. Not all games have action significant down to one frame. Some of my favorite real time games involve making decisions about once every 5 seconds which will result in a turning point in another 15 to 30 seconds which will get you killed or leave you victorious.
- SteveNuts 8y ago> I would assert that for now, you have to design around latency in real-time multiplayer games. Yeah but I believe they mostly do that with client-side rendering using the graphics card, and then reconciling that with what the server side "thinks" things should look like. That sort of thing wouldn't be possible if you're just working with a video stream.
- stcredzero 8y agoI'm not advocating working with a video stream.
- throwawaymath 8y agoI don't follow, how does streaming prevent cheating? Why would cheaters stream their own games?
- username3 8y agoI mean cloud gaming like OnLive, not Twitch.
- throwawaymath 8y agoOh interesting, I wasn't aware that was a thing. That makes sense.
- AlexAffe 8y agoI totally see how streaming - and letting everybody be able to see your stream - would help the cause, but the sheer amount of players make this method quite ineffective. Yes, if it's one individual making good money off it; No, if it's pesky script kiddies ruining the game expierence.... I would think.
- username3 8y agoI mean cloud gaming like OnLive, not Twitch.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- bumholio 8y agoDoubtful. It just so happens that a well known intro to neural nets focuses on controlling GTA using only on screen data and simulated keyboard inputs. That basic principle is valid for any game and can be improved to an unlimited extent. Furthermore, approaching the endpoint as a dumb video terminal is very limiting, almost any real time 3d game will have visible latency on almost any internet link. At the very least, mouse movement needs to be local, menu navigation, ideally also panning in response to user input. That means some game state will be available for a cheat.
- mukuro 8y agoLet alone the internet, the latency is noticeable in local networks.
- sthomas1618 8y agoThis isn't going to work. Latency will make this dead on arrival for multiplayer games.
- stcredzero 8y agoIt depends on the particular game. You can make the game mechanics, such that round-trip latency doesn't really matter.
- fwip 8y agoWhat part of cloud gaming prevents aimbots? Identify enemy player's head, move mouse, click.
- stcredzero 8y agoHere would be my solution: Either you don't have headshots, or you make aimbots a part of the game. Publish an API to let users have aimbots. Measure aimbot-ness by speed of aim, and have that status effect another stat, like "shield." ("Cranial shield feedback?") Manipulate that curve, such that the penalty only really kicks in for the truly superhuman. Now 1) You've motivated the cheat-writing community to try and imitate very good human players, but no better. 2) Your game's mechanics de-emphasize the style of play that would've made aimbots op, making it just a player choice. Also, not everything has to be an FPS.
- stcredzero 8y agoEssentially, my game system is the low tech version of this. The game is just a dumb terminal for displaying moving objects, which are syncing to info streaming from the server. It's so simplistic and dumb, we can even enforce Fog of War. When an entity disappears, its tag and move information are simply not sent. The client then diffs it out of the set of visible things.
- dividuum 8y agoAny reasonable multiplayer game works like this. They mention it in the linked article: "We don’t share the state of other players if it doesn’t need to be shared, so we can avoid common cheats like “map hacks”. Essentially the client only has the information it needs to show the current state of the game. The problem is then that the state available to the client (like position of entities) is easily accessible in memory unless you implement some of the countermeasures they describe. Streaming (as video) makes this harder as you'd then have to rely on visual information only. While this of course is also solvable using CV, it's a lot harder than looking at memory directly.
- stcredzero 8y agoThe problem is then that the state available to the client (like position of entities) is easily accessible in memory unless you implement some of the countermeasures they describe. Not a problem for my project. If you can't see it, the server isn't sending you anything.