4 ms·

These links are intended to suggest something contrary to what I've said, but they do not suggest any contradiction.

bazinga56 8y ago
Im not an expert so from my outside viewpoint I think by taking the guitar far away you are implying possibility of faster than light communication, which is thought to be not possible, so his links address that? Hard for me to understand so I'm just saying my thoughts out loud to get clarified, thanks
- crumpington 8y ago
  The quantum state of interest is induced when plucking the conjoined "guitars". (analog for particles) That state is induced at the moment the guitars share "locality" because entanglement requires locality for initialization of polarization. So then, we say we are as yet unaware of the qualities of the polarization we, ourselves, induced. Very mysterious. So spooky, yes? We do not measure, because we choose not to, so we do not yet know. Even if we prevent ourselves from having the capacity to measure, the results hold true, but so what? And so what, if we ask others to do the same. Imagine that we ask two waiters to tape two coins together in the kitchen, flip the linked coins, peel the coins apart while preserving the outcome of the coin flip, then take one coin to your table, and one to mine. Now I know which side of the coin you are looking at, without walking over to your table. So what. Nothing about this claims transmit information superluminously. In reality, with instrumentation, carrier signals relay an electromagnetic transmission in such a way that one cannot peek or tamper (the waiters can't change the coin flip, we cannot hear the ringing guitar), but this does not invalidate the premise of the analog. For the purposes of the analogous guitar example, we say that our couriers (electromagnetism itself) are prevented from touching or listening to the ringing guitars, or disclosing what they might sense. With the guitars, we say the guitars move away from the place where they were entangled. We'll say that our instrumentation rang the guitars at the grand canyon. Our couriers then transported the guitars to you, at the top of the Empire State Building in New York, and me on the Golden Gate Bridge in San Francisco. I receive the guitar, and discover that the LOW E string is ringing, it can only mean that you guitar's HIGH E string in ringing in New York. There are no local hidden variables in this example. The premise of polarity as a corollary for guitar strings is modeled in the exact same manner. Six strings on a guitar maps to the same essential parameters of each of two directions for all three axes of spin.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - danbruc 8y ago
    You are missing the point of Bell test experiments. Such experiments demonstrate that which guitar is the high E one and which is the low E one is not decided when they are still together. It is not that you and everyone else just don't know which way it is until someone listens to one of them, it is actually not yet decided until someone listens to one of them.
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
    - crumpington 8y ago
      It's just an expression of the conservation of energy. Much in the same way the double slit experiment conflates a particle transporting itself through two windows at once, so too, do these experiments conflate the polarizers as causing the effect. Ask yourself: if you construct a gun, with two diametrically opposed barrels, with exactly opposed rifling twists, and you aim the gun at two opposing (but identical) abrasive knurled metal rasp targets, such that if the bullet spins one way, the ricochet off rasp target will send it to a blue target, but if the bullet spins the other way, the grain of the rasp target is such that the bullet is sent to an orange target, will you be surprised to find that the behavior of the projectiles remains consistent? Fire those bullets out of that gun, and as the bullets leave the opposing twists of the barrel, and the spin of the bullets encounters the friction of the knurled surface, they will consistently be sent in whichever direction the spin of the barrels rifling puts them. When one side sends spins the bullet to hit the blue target, the other barrel's twist always puts the other corresponding bullet onto the orange target, by bouncing it off the polarizer rasp. So, now, to shrink downward to the realm of particle physics, what we find is that the ballistic particle guns are such that the emitter source is an array of many guns with varying rifling twists, but like pulling a lever on a slot machine, we cannot know which of the guns embedded in the radiation source will fire next. We won't know the turn of the rifling of the gun's barrel prior to whichever one happens to go off. We stick out our rasp target to have it send the bullet to a colored target, and we declare that the polarizer rasp directed the bullet particle, but not really. The emitting source's gun barrel imparted the spin. The polarizers induced behavior on particles that would have behaved as reciprocals anyway.

Im not an expert so from my outside viewpoint I think by taking the guitar far away you are implying possibility of faster than light communication, which is thought to be not possible, so his links address that? Hard for me to understand so I'm just saying my thoughts out loud to get clarified, thanks

crumpington 8y ago
The quantum state of interest is induced when plucking the conjoined "guitars". (analog for particles) That state is induced at the moment the guitars share "locality" because entanglement requires locality for initialization of polarization. So then, we say we are as yet unaware of the qualities of the polarization we, ourselves, induced. Very mysterious. So spooky, yes? We do not measure, because we choose not to, so we do not yet know. Even if we prevent ourselves from having the capacity to measure, the results hold true, but so what? And so what, if we ask others to do the same. Imagine that we ask two waiters to tape two coins together in the kitchen, flip the linked coins, peel the coins apart while preserving the outcome of the coin flip, then take one coin to your table, and one to mine. Now I know which side of the coin you are looking at, without walking over to your table. So what. Nothing about this claims transmit information superluminously. In reality, with instrumentation, carrier signals relay an electromagnetic transmission in such a way that one cannot peek or tamper (the waiters can't change the coin flip, we cannot hear the ringing guitar), but this does not invalidate the premise of the analog. For the purposes of the analogous guitar example, we say that our couriers (electromagnetism itself) are prevented from touching or listening to the ringing guitars, or disclosing what they might sense. With the guitars, we say the guitars move away from the place where they were entangled. We'll say that our instrumentation rang the guitars at the grand canyon. Our couriers then transported the guitars to you, at the top of the Empire State Building in New York, and me on the Golden Gate Bridge in San Francisco. I receive the guitar, and discover that the LOW E string is ringing, it can only mean that you guitar's HIGH E string in ringing in New York. There are no local hidden variables in this example. The premise of polarity as a corollary for guitar strings is modeled in the exact same manner. Six strings on a guitar maps to the same essential parameters of each of two directions for all three axes of spin.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- danbruc 8y ago
  You are missing the point of Bell test experiments. Such experiments demonstrate that which guitar is the high E one and which is the low E one is not decided when they are still together. It is not that you and everyone else just don't know which way it is until someone listens to one of them, it is actually not yet decided until someone listens to one of them.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - crumpington 8y ago
    It's just an expression of the conservation of energy. Much in the same way the double slit experiment conflates a particle transporting itself through two windows at once, so too, do these experiments conflate the polarizers as causing the effect. Ask yourself: if you construct a gun, with two diametrically opposed barrels, with exactly opposed rifling twists, and you aim the gun at two opposing (but identical) abrasive knurled metal rasp targets, such that if the bullet spins one way, the ricochet off rasp target will send it to a blue target, but if the bullet spins the other way, the grain of the rasp target is such that the bullet is sent to an orange target, will you be surprised to find that the behavior of the projectiles remains consistent? Fire those bullets out of that gun, and as the bullets leave the opposing twists of the barrel, and the spin of the bullets encounters the friction of the knurled surface, they will consistently be sent in whichever direction the spin of the barrels rifling puts them. When one side sends spins the bullet to hit the blue target, the other barrel's twist always puts the other corresponding bullet onto the orange target, by bouncing it off the polarizer rasp. So, now, to shrink downward to the realm of particle physics, what we find is that the ballistic particle guns are such that the emitter source is an array of many guns with varying rifling twists, but like pulling a lever on a slot machine, we cannot know which of the guns embedded in the radiation source will fire next. We won't know the turn of the rifling of the gun's barrel prior to whichever one happens to go off. We stick out our rasp target to have it send the bullet to a colored target, and we declare that the polarizer rasp directed the bullet particle, but not really. The emitting source's gun barrel imparted the spin. The polarizers induced behavior on particles that would have behaved as reciprocals anyway.