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I think it's okay that you don't see eye to eye with people who love Vue. And I think it's also important to note that most of the things you point out are mat

by rpeden 8y ago

I think it's okay that you don't see eye to eye with people who love Vue. And I think it's also important to note that most of the things you point out are matters of preference. I've seen Vue fans and React fans argue about these things until they're blue in the face, when all it really boils down to is that some people like the way Vue does things, and some people like the way React does things. Healthy debate is good. But the downside is that I've noticed these debates devolving into what I call identity politics for programmers - instead of seeing the other group as front-end developers who just like doing things differently, I see people breaking the world down into two groups: people who agree with them, and idiots. And I don't think this approach is very good for us as a community. So I don't mean to single you out here, but the author didn't really criticize React in any way, so I don't think coming to the defense of React vs Vue here really added to the conversation. Why not just say, "hey, I prefer React, but it's good Vue exists for folks who prefer a different approach.". Vue's existence isn't a threat to React. It's okay to have multiple approaches to the same problem. I prefer React too, but I don't think a front end framework monoculture is a good thing so I hope that Vue, React, Aurelia, Ember, and others continue to grow.

flabbergast 8y ago
It's just annoying that when I look for a new front-end job I see more and more Vue.. I really don't want to write all that markup, for me it feels like a step back from React, so I skip those jobs. Maybe I'm just afraid for non interesting technologies becoming a standard I have to concede to eventually.
- bigtunacan 8y ago
  And on the flip-side; I can't stand React so I'm glad to see that Vue is growing. I hate the JSX "everything is JavaScript" mentality where you shove all of your HTML into a render function. Vue's component separation of HTML/JavaScript/CSS just clicks better for me.
  - jimmy1 8y ago
    > I hate the JSX "everything is JavaScript" mentality Would you object to things like unobtrusive javascript? Things like unobtrusive javascript came to be because people recognized early on that HTML was not enoug for writing applications -- that you needed something more. Since basically the entire world has come to embrace unobtrusive javascript, it isn't a logical leap to embrace JSX. https://medium.freecodecamp.org/react-s-jsx-the-other-side-of-the-coin-2ace7ab62b98 https://medium.freecodecamp.org/react-s-jsx-the-other-side-o...
    - about_help 8y ago
      Some people don't appreciate being required to run arbitrary code just to view an HTML page and the eye candy of JS is just not worth it. Sure there are cases where JS is incredibly useful and beneficial, but your website should be able to display the majority of content with JS disabled.
      - vilmosi 8y ago
        > Sure there are cases where JS is incredibly useful and beneficial, but your website should be able to display the majority of content with JS disabled. That's an entirely different discussion than what the parent was discussing though. This is about those cases where you're not building a static website. "HTML was not enoug for writing applications"
      - SiVal 8y ago
        Saying that "your website" should be able to "display" its "content" without JS seems to assume (as so many do) that the web is fundamentally a collection of articles (read them, look at the pictures, link to other articles) with a few exceptions, and keeping it that way is every developer's responsibility. That's not what it is anymore. It has evolved into a general, distributed computing and communications platform. More and more uses of this platform require doing things that involve customized behaviors, not just the built-in features for displaying articles, so more and more people leave JS enabled. Kids who couldn't have afforded a family PC and MS Office now have a Chromebook at school (and maybe at home) and free Google Docs. And how many people whose only internet access device is a phone turn JS off in their phone? I think it makes more sense now to treat the JS-disabled, article-browsing case as the exception. If I were trying to distribute public health articles as widely as possible, I would try to limit them to simple text, small photos, no JS, nothing that wouldn't have worked 20 years ago. And even for less-critical articles, if they were just simple articles, I'm still inclined to leave out the JavaScript in most cases for the sake of simplicity, reliability, reach, and archival robustness. But for general purpose today, most developers in the developed world can assume JS is going to be enabled by the market they want to target.
- brailsafe 8y ago
  This was me with React :)
- s0341 8y ago
  I'm glad thats the case. Cause Vue > React.
- gramstrong 8y ago
  I don't think you are really going to have to concede to the latest hotness for a very long time. There's still plenty of jobs for building and maintaining PHP + jQuery applications. Shoot, I spent a lot of time at my last job maintaining Classic ASP serving up HTML. React isn't going anywhere.
  - darpa_escapee 8y ago
    This. Even if everyone started their new projects with Vue today, there will be legacy React codebases out in the wild for a long time to come. > PHP + jQuery applications. As much as people like to detract, Wordpress and friends power a significant portion of the web. The PHP market is pretty big.
- spectrum1234 8y ago
  I don't see any Vue jobs and I've been looking for a couple months now.
- zerr 8y ago
  >Maybe I'm just afraid for non interesting technologies becoming a standard I have to concede to eventually. Yeah, as a C++ dev, I skip all of the front-end, back-end and "full-stack" jobs... :(
Waterluvian 8y ago
That's fair. I've been scratching my head about vue for a while now. Every so often I try it again expecting some sort of, "ohhhh that's why everyone likes it!" But it never comes. Oh well. I'm glad it's providing value to people. I might just never understand.
mieseratte 8y ago
> Why not just say, "hey, I prefer React, but it's good Vue exists for folks who prefer a different approach.". Vue's existence isn't a threat to React. It's okay to have multiple approaches to the same problem. Because I keep seeing folks extolling the virtues of Vue, but when I went and used it I simply found little to nothing of merit compared to existing solutions. I'm not running around telling folks what to use here, but rather stating my experiences. Perhaps someone might come along and provide a reasonable explanation of how I misunderstood something or a problem it solves better than existing frameworks but all I get is "I look it and you don't so meh." In short, I'm trying to spur a technical discussion here but all I get in return is fanboyism and folks trying to shut down the conversation. > but the author didn't really criticize React in any way Actually, the author criticized React both in direct and indirect ways. He also made incorrect and or misleading claims. Of course the author also goes on the mention that he or she is inexperienced with React but somehow still feels qualified to make those claims. Sorry for trying to add to the discussion and not just posting "Oh gee, I sure do love Vue too!" > but I don't think a front end framework monoculture is a good thing Neither do I.

by rpeden 8y ago

flabbergast 8y ago

It's just annoying that when I look for a new front-end job I see more and more Vue.. I really don't want to write all that markup, for me it feels like a step back from React, so I skip those jobs. Maybe I'm just afraid for non interesting technologies becoming a standard I have to concede to eventually.

bigtunacan 8y ago
And on the flip-side; I can't stand React so I'm glad to see that Vue is growing. I hate the JSX "everything is JavaScript" mentality where you shove all of your HTML into a render function. Vue's component separation of HTML/JavaScript/CSS just clicks better for me.
- jimmy1 8y ago
  > I hate the JSX "everything is JavaScript" mentality Would you object to things like unobtrusive javascript? Things like unobtrusive javascript came to be because people recognized early on that HTML was not enoug for writing applications -- that you needed something more. Since basically the entire world has come to embrace unobtrusive javascript, it isn't a logical leap to embrace JSX. https://medium.freecodecamp.org/react-s-jsx-the-other-side-of-the-coin-2ace7ab62b98 https://medium.freecodecamp.org/react-s-jsx-the-other-side-o...
  - about_help 8y ago
    Some people don't appreciate being required to run arbitrary code just to view an HTML page and the eye candy of JS is just not worth it. Sure there are cases where JS is incredibly useful and beneficial, but your website should be able to display the majority of content with JS disabled.
    - vilmosi 8y ago
      > Sure there are cases where JS is incredibly useful and beneficial, but your website should be able to display the majority of content with JS disabled. That's an entirely different discussion than what the parent was discussing though. This is about those cases where you're not building a static website. "HTML was not enoug for writing applications"
    - SiVal 8y ago
      Saying that "your website" should be able to "display" its "content" without JS seems to assume (as so many do) that the web is fundamentally a collection of articles (read them, look at the pictures, link to other articles) with a few exceptions, and keeping it that way is every developer's responsibility. That's not what it is anymore. It has evolved into a general, distributed computing and communications platform. More and more uses of this platform require doing things that involve customized behaviors, not just the built-in features for displaying articles, so more and more people leave JS enabled. Kids who couldn't have afforded a family PC and MS Office now have a Chromebook at school (and maybe at home) and free Google Docs. And how many people whose only internet access device is a phone turn JS off in their phone? I think it makes more sense now to treat the JS-disabled, article-browsing case as the exception. If I were trying to distribute public health articles as widely as possible, I would try to limit them to simple text, small photos, no JS, nothing that wouldn't have worked 20 years ago. And even for less-critical articles, if they were just simple articles, I'm still inclined to leave out the JavaScript in most cases for the sake of simplicity, reliability, reach, and archival robustness. But for general purpose today, most developers in the developed world can assume JS is going to be enabled by the market they want to target.
brailsafe 8y ago
This was me with React :)
s0341 8y ago
I'm glad thats the case. Cause Vue > React.
gramstrong 8y ago
I don't think you are really going to have to concede to the latest hotness for a very long time. There's still plenty of jobs for building and maintaining PHP + jQuery applications. Shoot, I spent a lot of time at my last job maintaining Classic ASP serving up HTML. React isn't going anywhere.
- darpa_escapee 8y ago
  This. Even if everyone started their new projects with Vue today, there will be legacy React codebases out in the wild for a long time to come. > PHP + jQuery applications. As much as people like to detract, Wordpress and friends power a significant portion of the web. The PHP market is pretty big.
spectrum1234 8y ago
I don't see any Vue jobs and I've been looking for a couple months now.
zerr 8y ago
>Maybe I'm just afraid for non interesting technologies becoming a standard I have to concede to eventually. Yeah, as a C++ dev, I skip all of the front-end, back-end and "full-stack" jobs... :(

Waterluvian 8y ago

That's fair. I've been scratching my head about vue for a while now. Every so often I try it again expecting some sort of, "ohhhh that's why everyone likes it!" But it never comes. Oh well. I'm glad it's providing value to people. I might just never understand.

mieseratte 8y ago

> Why not just say, "hey, I prefer React, but it's good Vue exists for folks who prefer a different approach.". Vue's existence isn't a threat to React. It's okay to have multiple approaches to the same problem. Because I keep seeing folks extolling the virtues of Vue, but when I went and used it I simply found little to nothing of merit compared to existing solutions. I'm not running around telling folks what to use here, but rather stating my experiences. Perhaps someone might come along and provide a reasonable explanation of how I misunderstood something or a problem it solves better than existing frameworks but all I get is "I look it and you don't so meh." In short, I'm trying to spur a technical discussion here but all I get in return is fanboyism and folks trying to shut down the conversation. > but the author didn't really criticize React in any way Actually, the author criticized React both in direct and indirect ways. He also made incorrect and or misleading claims. Of course the author also goes on the mention that he or she is inexperienced with React but somehow still feels qualified to make those claims. Sorry for trying to add to the discussion and not just posting "Oh gee, I sure do love Vue too!" > but I don't think a front end framework monoculture is a good thing Neither do I.