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I think the only concrete criticism here is that the Vue ecosystem is new, which is (admittedly) perilous. But with the KISS approach Vue takes, I've only very

I think the only concrete criticism here is that the Vue ecosystem is new, which is (admittedly) perilous. But with the KISS approach Vue takes, I've only very rarely cared about the ecosystem at all. I think that the weakness you are seeing here is a straw man from the nature of React's over-architected approach, which Vue does not significantly suffer from (sort of, we don't need a bunch of apps, just a good phone). Is there a particular situation you are thinking of when you say we are in need of said ecosystem?

abalashov 8y ago
> But with the KISS approach Vue takes, I've only very rarely cared about the ecosystem at all. I think quite similarly. I've only paid attention to third-party components maybe once or twice. That said, ecosystem size, health and critical mass do factor into project longevity, as well as perceived adoptability, all of which feed back into each other. However, in the context of React, the discussion about ecosystem elides the high necessity of using it, since core React stands a virtually zero chance of being sufficient.
- crooked-v 8y ago
  > However, in the context of React, the discussion about ecosystem elides the high necessity of using it, since core React stands a virtually zero chance of being sufficient. I think an SPA version of a CRUD app wouldn't need anything past core React. Most people don't talk about things that unamibitous, though.
  - brailsafe 8y ago
    I think more often than not, an SPA version of a CRUD app is what most people convince themselves they're not working on.
Ataraxy 8y ago
How long until the ecosystem isn't considered 'new' and what's missing from it to be considered not up to scratch compared to React?
- faitswulff 8y ago
  For me? Something on par with React Native. I've used Vue/Vuex extensively and I'm playing with React Native. RN isn't perfect, but at least people have shipped with it. I haven't heard of anything vaguely production-ready for mobile app development in the Vue ecosystem.
  - nailer 8y ago
    Maybe https://nativescript-vue.org/ https://nativescript-vue.org/ ? Disclaimer: I don't use React or Vue. I have no idea how their mobile versions compare. I get my virtual DOM kicks from Ractive, developed by The Guardian newspaper. I'm told it's like Vue. I really like it. I'll probably move to Svelte for my next major project.
    - abalashov 8y ago
      Ooh, interesting! Learned something new today. Cheers!
  - Kihashi 8y ago
    In addition to Nativescript (from Telerik, although the Vue bindings are community-sourced), there's also weex[1], which is backed by Alibaba. Downside is that a lot of the docs are in chinese. While NS is fairly mature at this point, the vue bindings only reached a 1.0 release this year. There's been a lot of development done on it recently, though. I am unsure if anyone major company has shipped using NS-Vue. [1]: https://weex.incubator.apache.org/ https://weex.incubator.apache.org/
mieseratte 8y ago
> But with the KISS approach Vue takes, I've only very rarely cared about the ecosystem at all. > Is there a particular situation you are thinking of when you say we are in need of said ecosystem? Here's a concrete, real-world example. I spent several months researching Vue and React for a large SPA migration from AngularJS at work. In order to migrate a single page, I had to write three compatibility libraries that already existed for React. This was for a simple page that pulled in data via an API and displayed it in a handful of tables. Another engineer did an audit of our third-party library use and needs, e.g. complicated "excel" like spreadsheet tables, and we simply couldn't find an existing Vue solution. That meant I would need to write my own compatibility libraries for at least another half-dozen complex libraries. There was an argument in favor of using Vue because we could get a lot of open-source exposure so I'll give it that. Plenty of low-hanging fruit for the open-source Vue developer. Perhaps Vue folks are only working on extremely small, basic, CRUD applications. The software I work on is not. > I think that the weakness you are seeing here is a straw man from the nature of React's over-architected approach React simply provides you components with a lifecycle. You are free to architect and compose those primitives however you see fit. Contrast with Vue, can you please reasonably explain the difference between a custom attribute vs. a component and when it would be appropriate to use one over the other? How is this simpler? How is this "keeping it simple?" This is only a single deviation between the two. Vue tells me it is "opinionated" but when I have to research, compare, and contrast it's own core features I have to ask how is this "opinionated." If I have to do all of this legwork how is it "Keeping it Simple, Stupid?"
- LiterallyDoge 8y ago
  With full respect for your choices, I don't have your code in front of me so I can't review or comment on architectural decisions made, but given that disclaimer - when people say they "need" a plugin to do something, I often wonder if their viewpoint is accurate to the real problem being addressed, or if they are programming by habit, rather than by best practice. Again, I mean no disrespect because I have no information to criticize other than base assumptions. To Excel, I wonder how much reimplementing was needed again, did you need computations in-cells like Excel has? It seems like if you are going that deep you will need to implement much of the logic on your own. I guess if you are truly just reimplementing Excel in a web interface, then your point has merit, but it seems like for something that specific, the preboxed solution would more get in the way? To directives versus components, certain behaviors make more sense to me as an HTML element (an infinite scroller, for example) than as a "controller-level" component. Additionally I've found a great transparency of debugging by starting with the HTML and looking at what functions are being invoked when, than by hoping I know where the "controller" is binding into the HTML, and perhaps never finding all of it. And fair - I still don't know what "opinionated" means... lol

abalashov 8y ago

> But with the KISS approach Vue takes, I've only very rarely cared about the ecosystem at all. I think quite similarly. I've only paid attention to third-party components maybe once or twice. That said, ecosystem size, health and critical mass do factor into project longevity, as well as perceived adoptability, all of which feed back into each other. However, in the context of React, the discussion about ecosystem elides the high necessity of using it, since core React stands a virtually zero chance of being sufficient.

crooked-v 8y ago
> However, in the context of React, the discussion about ecosystem elides the high necessity of using it, since core React stands a virtually zero chance of being sufficient. I think an SPA version of a CRUD app wouldn't need anything past core React. Most people don't talk about things that unamibitous, though.
- brailsafe 8y ago
  I think more often than not, an SPA version of a CRUD app is what most people convince themselves they're not working on.

Ataraxy 8y ago

How long until the ecosystem isn't considered 'new' and what's missing from it to be considered not up to scratch compared to React?

faitswulff 8y ago
For me? Something on par with React Native. I've used Vue/Vuex extensively and I'm playing with React Native. RN isn't perfect, but at least people have shipped with it. I haven't heard of anything vaguely production-ready for mobile app development in the Vue ecosystem.
- nailer 8y ago
  Maybe https://nativescript-vue.org/ https://nativescript-vue.org/ ? Disclaimer: I don't use React or Vue. I have no idea how their mobile versions compare. I get my virtual DOM kicks from Ractive, developed by The Guardian newspaper. I'm told it's like Vue. I really like it. I'll probably move to Svelte for my next major project.
  - abalashov 8y ago
    Ooh, interesting! Learned something new today. Cheers!
- Kihashi 8y ago
  In addition to Nativescript (from Telerik, although the Vue bindings are community-sourced), there's also weex[1], which is backed by Alibaba. Downside is that a lot of the docs are in chinese. While NS is fairly mature at this point, the vue bindings only reached a 1.0 release this year. There's been a lot of development done on it recently, though. I am unsure if anyone major company has shipped using NS-Vue. [1]: https://weex.incubator.apache.org/ https://weex.incubator.apache.org/

mieseratte 8y ago

> But with the KISS approach Vue takes, I've only very rarely cared about the ecosystem at all. > Is there a particular situation you are thinking of when you say we are in need of said ecosystem? Here's a concrete, real-world example. I spent several months researching Vue and React for a large SPA migration from AngularJS at work. In order to migrate a single page, I had to write three compatibility libraries that already existed for React. This was for a simple page that pulled in data via an API and displayed it in a handful of tables. Another engineer did an audit of our third-party library use and needs, e.g. complicated "excel" like spreadsheet tables, and we simply couldn't find an existing Vue solution. That meant I would need to write my own compatibility libraries for at least another half-dozen complex libraries. There was an argument in favor of using Vue because we could get a lot of open-source exposure so I'll give it that. Plenty of low-hanging fruit for the open-source Vue developer. Perhaps Vue folks are only working on extremely small, basic, CRUD applications. The software I work on is not. > I think that the weakness you are seeing here is a straw man from the nature of React's over-architected approach React simply provides you components with a lifecycle. You are free to architect and compose those primitives however you see fit. Contrast with Vue, can you please reasonably explain the difference between a custom attribute vs. a component and when it would be appropriate to use one over the other? How is this simpler? How is this "keeping it simple?" This is only a single deviation between the two. Vue tells me it is "opinionated" but when I have to research, compare, and contrast it's own core features I have to ask how is this "opinionated." If I have to do all of this legwork how is it "Keeping it Simple, Stupid?"

LiterallyDoge 8y ago
With full respect for your choices, I don't have your code in front of me so I can't review or comment on architectural decisions made, but given that disclaimer - when people say they "need" a plugin to do something, I often wonder if their viewpoint is accurate to the real problem being addressed, or if they are programming by habit, rather than by best practice. Again, I mean no disrespect because I have no information to criticize other than base assumptions. To Excel, I wonder how much reimplementing was needed again, did you need computations in-cells like Excel has? It seems like if you are going that deep you will need to implement much of the logic on your own. I guess if you are truly just reimplementing Excel in a web interface, then your point has merit, but it seems like for something that specific, the preboxed solution would more get in the way? To directives versus components, certain behaviors make more sense to me as an HTML element (an infinite scroller, for example) than as a "controller-level" component. Additionally I've found a great transparency of debugging by starting with the HTML and looking at what functions are being invoked when, than by hoping I know where the "controller" is binding into the HTML, and perhaps never finding all of it. And fair - I still don't know what "opinionated" means... lol